Early Datsun 5 speeds: need Z g/box guru

[websteg]

Hello there. I am wanting to know about the gearbox known as the FS5C71A. I know it was introduced in the Roadster 2000, in about 1967. It known to have a 3 piece case with a stright stick. It had a variant, same numbers except the C was a W (FS5W71A) which had the weaker warner style brass syncros (instead of servo style steel syncros). I thought this box would be rare, but I believe it was original equipment on the 1969-1971 240Z as well? This is where I need confirmation from a "Z head" as you like to refer to yourselves!!! Is it true? I also heard that the 1972-1976 240Z had the next evolution, the FS5C71B which differed in that it had a 2 piece case and a bent stick. Had almost identical ratios, slightly different. Can someone confirm? Note that I might be out by a year in any or all of my release dates as I am in AUS not US.

Why I ask? I am wanting a period (produced in the same years) datsun 5spd gearbox to run in my race Datsun 1600 (P510 in the US). The model run for these cars in AUS was 1968-1972, so basically I need the strongest Datsun 5spd from this 68-72 period I can get. It either going to be the A or the B box, depending on what you guys say on the 2 boxes (and wether the B box was released before the end of 72 or not).

Is A better than B?

Do I have my details correct?

Are both boxes hard to find?

Is either one easier to rebuild/strenghten?

Cost?

Note that I cant run latter model boxes, ie Option 1 box, its against the regulations. Or I'd run my Opt 1 and be done with it!!

Hope someone can help.

Thanks.

[g72s20]

Hi Websteg,

I know very little about Z's and their gearboxes, but from my own searching I thought they didn't get a 5 speed 'till the 280? Was Australia different? Did the Skylines of the era have a 5 speed?

Here'a a little info

Have a search of the forums here. There is a wealth of info in there and I'm sure the answers you need also!

....pity about rules and the option one though:disappoin

Good luck with it,

Jim.

[260Zed]

but from my own searching I thought they didn't get a 5 speed 'till the 280? Was Australia different?

It was only the US market that missed out on the 5 speed in the early zeds i believe. I can't recall off the top of my head (FS5C71B i think) which one Ive got but it has the bent stick, desirable ratios and the porsche style syncros (which are quite expensive to replace! in aus anyway). I'm not sure if it was stock or a PO has changed it. It is currently on my 75 260z.

Actually, reading this over. I havent really helped your question at all! :stupid:

Luke

[26th-Z]

No Luke! I can add a little to this. I am no gearbox guy either, but I do know enough to be dangerous. My US import came with a F4W71A type 4-speed, 3-piece, straight shifter transmission. I believe the synchros are Borg type.

I just bought a FS5C71B type that was sold through Datsun Competition in the US as a "close ratio overdrive" 5-speed. It is part number 32010-N3130 and was last shown in the April '96 competition catalog. This same transmission appears in a RHD parts catalog fitting to the 260Z from 11-73 on and superceeding 32010-N3100. My transmission was described to me as having the "Porsche servo style synchros" and they are steel. The gear ratios are: 2.906 / 1.902 / 1.308 / 1.0 / 0.864 The transmission has a pin type shifter and the catalog shows them straight, not bent - I didn't get a shifter with my purchase. It has the internal female type driveshaft connection - the kind that lets all the oil run out on the floor - but it came with a nifty plug designed to fit. I'm told this plug is extremely rare. This transmission listed in the competition parts catalog for just under $1,500 in 1996.

Hope this helps!

[Zedrally]

Websteg,

I gather you're building a datto 1600 in HRC category, am I correct?

If so the the correct period is 1967, pre 68 or HRC1. If that is the case then you will need to use the Roadster gearbox.

I guess it's really comes down to the level of competition that you're contemplating, if it's just clubbies then any 5 speed will do, if it's Targa then you need to be extremely careful to use the homolgated box.

I probably haven't answered your question either, but I hope the info helps.

[websteg]

zedrally is onto me. He sees my plan! A question though: HRC recognises model "run on" (ie starts from the first year of release) but, as 1600's started here (AUS) 1968, how will it be possible to recognise my car or any 1600 as pre 1968? So, I thought id have to run hrc2, post historic, 1972-76 or whatever it is. The CAMS manual confuses me, I go to a HRC event and see all kinds of variations on what is suposedly permisable. Can you explain?

[Zedrally]

The 510 is recognised as HRC1 pre 68. It was always thought that it was 68-75 HRC2, however much digging un-earthed the proof that it was originally sold in OZ in 1967, therefore being recognised as HRC1. We have many 1600's running in the HRA that are HRC1.

The only 5 speed box that was homolgated at that time came from the roadster, which only required a different bellhousing (if memory serves me right, I'm sure someone here will correct me if I'm wrong). I guess you would only need to worry about that if you are running a State level or higher event.

At club level it's generally a gentlemans agreement that allows option gearboxes to run on the 510, after all we're out there for the fun!

How serious are you?

Otherwise you could run PRC.

[sakijo]

CG10s and CG110s came with 5 speeds. Early ones probably had the FS5C71A three piece case, and later ones came with the FS5C71B two piece case. I swapped out my FS5C71A 4-speed to a FS5C71B 5-speed. Mine probably came out of a Z because it's a little shorter than the 4-speed. It came with a bent stick, but my Skyline uses a straight stick.

Anyone need a bent stick that will fit a FS5C71A/FS5C71B?

[akwikz]

The gearbox you mentioned came in the S30 non-North American cars from '70 and '71. They also came in the '69-'71 Skyline GT-X. They look pretty much like the 4 speed trannys that were in our U.S. version '70 and '71 Z's. I actually still have one from my Skyline sitting in the garage.

Brian

[240 in OZ]

I had a FS5C17A transmission rebuilt a few years ago. It was attained from a 240-Z here in Australia. The synchros cost me a fortune and were the Porsche type, hence the price.

Joseph

[Carl Beck]

Hello webteg:

When it comes to the strength of the gear box - A or B are about the same actually. The "W" Warner Type Synchro's are brass, shift smoother but wear a little more quickly (80K to 100K miles), the "C" Servo or Porsche Style are steel, shift a little less smoothly but wear a little longer (100K to 120K miles). Nissan Competition recommended the "C" type for competition use.

The "B" type transmissions were introduced for the 1972 Model Year 240-Z's and 510's.. which started production around 09/71.

The truth of the matter is your major concern should be with the gear ratio's you will need for the tracks you run, more so than the strength of the gear boxes and secondarily with the availability of replacement or repair parts for either gear box. Many of the parts for the "A" box are getting hard to find today - especially the gears themselves.

We have a listing of the various gear boxes and the standard ratio's on the Z Car Home Page (scrol down to the transmissions below the rear end listing)

see: <a href=http://zhome.com/ZCMnL/tech/GearRatios.html TARGET=NEW>http://zhome.com/ZCMnL/tech/GearRatios.html</a>

According to the Nissan Competition Dept.:

When installing any of the 5spd. transmissions into the sedans the gearshift lever hole must be moved rearward in the chassis. Also Part Number 11341-N2020 must be used for the rear transmission mount (or the existing mount must be modified). On any of the vehicles, the stock driveshaft must be shortened and re-balanced. The shifter kit Part Number 99996-E3030 must be used on all late style transmissions (Type .

The early Roadster style 5spd. can be adapted for use in the 510 -

08111-22210 Bolt 2ea.

11341-21030 Rear Transmission Mount

30401-22010 Bell Housing

30501-22010 Throwout Bearing Sleeve

37000-22010 Drive Shaft for installing transmisson in 510 only

== = = = end Nissan pub - - - - - - - - - -

It looks like the bottom line is - you are far better off getting the later style "B" transmission, as it comes with the correct Bell Housing and you can easily have your drive shaft shortened and re-balanced.

The special shifter kit mentioned above - is really about the shift lever being bent into a more or less "S" shape - you can just bent the straight shifter to suit...

See: <a href=http://zhome.com/ZCMnL/tech/69-83TrannyShifterDrawing.jpg TARGET=NEW>http://zhome.com/ZCMnL/tech/69-83TrannyShifterDrawing.jpg</a>

and

See: <a href=http://zhome.com/ZCMnL/tech/AandBtranny.htm TARGET=NEW>http://zhome.com/ZCMnL/tech/AandBtranny.htm</a> For a picture of the Competition Shifter - this will give you an idea of how much the straight shift lever would have to be bent.

good luck...

Carl

Carl Beck

Clearwater, FL USA

http://ZHome.com

[HS30-H]

websteg,

Here's a relatively recent thread that contained lots of data that you might find useful / interesting:

http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20792

Alan T.