Tracking again, need inexpensive brake improvements

[CG Mojo]

My '71 had the Toyota truck upgrade on it when I bought it and the upgrade is fantastic. No need to convert the rear drums to discs.

[Kyle]

Hey guys - I knew about the 4x4 brake upgrade, but somehow managed to forget about it in the interim. Vented rotors would sure be a plus. Well... we'll see how this stuff works. It's surely going to be better than last time out... if I get the racing bug, the 4x4 thing might be the way to go.

[Marty Rogan]

... if I get the racing bug, the 4x4 thing might be the way to go.

IF, !!!!! You mean WHEN!! The first time I did a driver's school at the track, I was hooked. There's just something about driving your Z full out and at the limit without the worry of traffic cops nabbing you. You will be doubly infected. You already have Z Fever, for which there is only 1 known cure. Now you will turn into a track junky! It's all good fun though.

Enjoy, and let us know how those brake coolers work.

Marty

[Kyle]

Update: Installed pads, fluid, coolers, and ducting yesterday. The Fade Stop Brake Cooler clearance was extremely tight on the outside, less than 1/8" to the wheel. They are Panasport 15x7, zero offset, non-racing. Just an FYI, they fit but barely

I used a single 8' piece of corrugated extendable 3" tubing as suggested. I taped the ducts to the spoiler with 20mil plumbling PVC table (super thick and super sticky). The caliper side, I poked a hole in the ducts, reinforced with some more tape, and ziptied them to the brake line at the caliper as suggested. I didn't use any kind of rigid outlet duct.

Routed as in the FSBC seller's image, there's no interference, though things are pretty tight in the area of the caliper to frame to swaybar... hence ditching the outlet ducting. And that stuff likes to unravel if not kept completely circuilar. :paranoid:

At full lock one way, the ducting kinda aims at the tire/rim area, and at full lock the other way, it aims cloer to the caliper body. I don't figure either are going to be an issue, since most racing is nowhere near full lock. If I dive in and go AX, I might revise things... though AX speeds probably aren't high enough to be an issue.

The ATE super blue fluid is KILLER. Made bleeding the brakes extremely simple; with a transparent bleed hose, you can see the fluid go from brown/tan to yellow to green to blue in a couple pumps.

The HP+ pads are excellent. Bite isn't the greatest when cold, but certainly no worse than my old worn out parts-store cheapies. When warmed up, these things are NUTS. Now I need bigger tires! Oh, and no noise yet (I was repeatedly warned that noise can be an issue with these). I used a grease-type (as opposed to the drying RTV type) brake anti-squeal between the pads and anti squeal shims, between the shims and the coolers, and between the coolers and the caliper pistons.

I'll be breaking them in this week, off to the track Thursday, and I'll report back on Friday or Monday.

So far so good, I'm really happy with the way things turned out. Nice to think that ~$300 on OEM brakes can perform so well.

Quick question on the rear brakes, if you can help - I think the right rear locks up before the left. Can I just loosen the adjuster to compensate? As far as I know, the pads are clean and dry and equally worn on each side...

[Kyle]

And I'm back.

Brakes worked GREAT! GREAT!!!! GREAT I TELLS YA!!!!!!

I had no fade, no sponginess, no issues whatsoever throughout a hard drive up and back and five 20 minute track sessions.

I also managed to be faster than everyone else in my group, with the least powerful and oldest car.

I am now an official track junkie. Thank you, that is all.:beard:

[Marty Rogan]

Glad to hear all went well. It REALLY is addictive isn't it!!? I went to a driver's school 4 years ago, ah hem..., just to try it and see how an old Z would really handle. Man that was it. Now I am planning my summers around track days! So, when your next track day?

Marty

[Kyle]

Hey Marty-

When I went five+ (?) years ago, it was a blast, and I swore I'd do it more often... then life intervened, and whoa, I restored the car and quit driving it. For SHAME! (hahaha).

Next run is 9/6, but I probably won't make that. I have to get the trans replaced beforehand. http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?p=183454#post183454

Then it's 10/13, still at Thunderhill, then Buttonwillow on 11/13. I'm going to shoot for both of those. We shall see what happens.

Best news of all - my wife is HOOKED!!!!! I got promoted to group B (only one as far as I know - I really was Da Man out there, and that's not my ego talking), so my wife's talking about running the Z in group A.... Or taking her Volvo wagon (which would be pretty sweet).

I could see quitting work and just chasing from track to track for the rest of my days. Damn it's fun.

[Marty Rogan]

Hey Marty-

When I went five+ (?) years ago, it was a blast, and I swore I'd do it more often... then life intervened, and whoa, I restored the car and quit driving it. For SHAME! (hahaha).

Next run is 9/6, but I probably won't make that. I have to get the trans replaced beforehand. http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?p=183454#post183454

Then it's 10/13, still at Thunderhill, then Buttonwillow on 11/13. I'm going to shoot for both of those. We shall see what happens.

Best news of all - my wife is HOOKED!!!!! I got promoted to group B (only one as far as I know - I really was Da Man out there, and that's not my ego talking), so my wife's talking about running the Z in group A.... Or taking her Volvo wagon (which would be pretty sweet).

I could see quitting work and just chasing from track to track for the rest of my days. Damn it's fun.

SEE!!! You are already checking the schedules for next time, !! It is the most fun a car guy can have with his pants on, !

Having your wife hooked is even better! Just ask Chino240Z. He and his wife both share their race car. She is always asking what they can do to the car to make it go faster. Man that would be a dream come true. My wife won't even touch a stick shift car, much less want to race one. Oh well, at least she tolerates my obessession, !

If I were you I would take the 5 spd to one of the good Z Shops out there and get it done right. It shouldn't cost that much just to get things tightened up correctly. There is nothing worse than to develop a problem at the track. On June 24th, my junkyard 280ZX motor did a major melt down after my second timed run. Funny thing is, I beat my best time at that track by 6 seconds! Then I barely made it home.

This weekend I just fired up my new Jasper remanufactured motor. Should have just gone this route the first time. Oh, well you learn by your mistakes. Now I just have to get enough break-in miles on it before the next track day on August 17th. I can't wait!!!

Marty

[jmortensen]

Congratulations on the successful outing Kyle. Sounds like you did great, and the brakes did too! As to your question about the rears, one thing you can do to make them more even is have both drums turned to the same ID. If they're different sizes that will cause different braking on each side. Also making sure they're adjusted properly in between sessions will keep everything working properly.

5 20 minute sessions is a lot. Did you bleed in between sessions at all? You might bring your bottle and your can of SuperBlue with you next time, I wouldn't be surprised if you end up needing it at some point, especially if you switch to stickier tires (which you'll be wanting to do soon if you don't already).

[Kyle]

Hey hey guys.

Motor - hee hee, I have learned much since I built it; back then I had this inexcusable insistance on a 9.5 CR. So I put a thick HG in to bring it down from 10.5+/- (L28 +1mm flattops, N42). Guess what that means? (muwhahhahh) I have a big CR jump just a HG change away. Had plenty of power though, so I'm going to leave that (and megasquirt) on the to-do list for the time being).

I got the ZX FSM, so I'm going to give the trans one more shot. You guys know I can R&R the tranny in half an hour.

The brakes did develop a little yaw toward the end of the day, but there was no other untoward behavior from the system. I was floored by how well everything worked out. I did have the fluid along just in case.

Stickier tires are indeed on the agenda. Current tires are 215/60HR15's, Michelin Pilot XGT (?). I was askared that they'd be awful, since they didn't feel great on the street. But they held up much better than other guys in our group, and had plenty of grip for the day. Evidently chewing up the treadblocks got to the "good part", because they were still plenty sticky when I got home.

When they wear out, I'll go back to 225/50, and I'll get some good street/track gumballs... probably won't go full race for just track school days, which is all I'll be doing for the foreseable future. Car isn't built to any spec for real racing anyway... and it's too pretty for wheel-to-wheel.

But speaking of race tires, I took a ride with an instructor (at the insistance of my wife and buddies who swore these guys were the biz) in hit Dodge Stealth turbo. ya know what? Other than envying his race tires, I felt pretty gratified - I drove the same line (more or less) used the whole track just as much, and overall felt like I knew what I was doing.

Man, what an ego boost having my BMW/Porsche/Ferrari/Mercedes etc friends trying like hell to keep up with me. "Dude, that car is FAST!" Hee hee. No, it's not fast. But it handles well. And more importantly:

It brakes AWESOMELY!! Couldn't have done it without you guys in this thread.