R-414b ??

[Sailor Bob]

Just called A/C specialist to get system checked/purged/charged - told tech I would supply refrigerant (R-12), to which I recieved a Chilling (weak) reply - "no way man, no can do - we aren't allowed to use that stuff anymore - where did you get that anyway?" I quickly changed the subject and asked about what they were using as a substitute, to which he replied "414 man, where have you been?"

I guess I was still in 1977 - anyway the R-12 is in the garage and the 414 is going to cost about $100. The little info I have found says it's fully compatable and 8% more effective than R-12. Who would have thunk it:surprised ?

Anyone using this stuff?? please post opinion or impressions.

Later

[webdawg1]

How about the following url: http://www.redtek.ca/

Redtek 12a replaces R-12, 134a refrigerant. Runs colder than R-12...No retrofitting required. Check them out....

webdawg1

[Montezuma]

I was told that R-12 can still be used if the shop had it in stock prior to the change in policy. My friend who is a mechanic at a local So Cal garage told me that they are still using their old stock of R-12. I guess it makes sense since there is nothing else you can do with the product other than use it for its intented use.

[sblake01]

Most shops will not use your refrigerant to charge your car. R414B works well in a R12 system but RedTek12 works a little better and costs less. I have used both but switched to RedTek about a year ago with both of my R12 cars with no problems. However, if you have R12 and a means to charge your system, I'd use that instead. The only reason I have switched to alternatives is the high cost and the difficulty obtaining R12.

[Sailor Bob]

I just got back from getting my system checked out and much to my disappointment the condenser is in poor shape (20 or more pin holes). The rest of the system is tight and it blows cold, when charged. Unfortunately they had to drain the system and it cost $73 for the test.

I now have time to size it up, at least till I get a new condenser. I called a repair shop and they suggested that I remove it and bring it in to see if they could do something with it, however unlikely. (At least he didn't call me "dude") Maybe they can cross reference or modify a core to fit.

The cost of the repairs have me thinking I'm probably going to use the free stuff in the garage and ignore my eco-guilt.

Being cheap and having an older Z is not a perfect match.

[TBK1]

ok lets start with the R-12, Not elligal to use, just cant manufacture it after the 1991 montreal protocol, cost is over 30.00 per lb thats why no one uses it.

R-134 will NOT cool better, but will work in the system. The reason most shops use it is you dont have to have an EPA cert to buy it! Almost forgot, I beleive that the auto guys cant buy anything but 134 on their cert cards, might be wrong but dont think so!

R-414b, be careful it contains a butane type product in its make up, think about that? Leaks ?

A product Ive found VERY close and working very well is R-420 and it doesnt contain any butane products (think it used to be called RB276)

And last I have 2 condensors sitting here if you cant find one i'll make you a decent deal one one.

Used to be a HVAC/R instructor and now run my own business! Z's as with most of us are our hobby!

[sblake01]

R420A or RB276 is not designed for smaller mobile systems such as automotive a/c. It's actually for chillers/freezers etc. I've heard of people using it in cars but have no direct personal experience with it. As far as the butane/propane content in some R12 alternative goes, due to the fractionization that takes place when a refrigerant leaks, the chance of an explosion or fire is virtuall nil and there have been no reported cases. The R134a molecule is much smaller than R12 and whereas it will work in an R12 system, over the long haul, it will just cause problems. The higher pressure that R134a requires will cause problems in a system not designed for it. In short, do not use R134a in a system designed for R12. You don't need any kind of cetification to purchase R134a. They sell it over the counter to anyone in auto parts stores, Costco, etc. But I digress. R414B (Hotshot), RedTek12, Envirosafe 12, Freeze12, and any of the other alternatives to R12, whether they are hydrocarbon based or not, are tested to a standard, and are no more dangerous in tems of explostion or fire than a CFC or HCFC refrigerant. That stuff that we carry in that big metal tank behind the differential is more dangerous. Bottom line---if you have R12, when you get your condenser replaced, use it.

[sakijo]

My A/C man back home said that they have to recycle the refrigerant and need a machine for each type of gas, which gets expensive. He still uses R-12, but other than that, it's R-134a. He just can't afford the machines. He also mentioned the "glide point" in mixed gasses such as Freezone causes problems within the system because each gas has a different "glide point," which causes friction.

We still have R-12 here in Japan and that's what's in my car. It is getting harder and harder to find, but R-12 is available. If your car was made for R-12, I highly suggest getting it if you can afford it.

[g72s20]

...and unfortunately you need a much more efficient compressor/ac system to achieve the same temp differential with 134A.

The deal on R12