Warning dumb question ahead....

[Spridal]

Actually two dumb questions.

1. What does the "Z" stand for?

2. What does "HLS30" stand for?

[theianmonster]

1) I don't think the Z stands for anything actually.

2) H= L24 (240Z) or L28E (280Z), L=Left hand drive, S30= Car model.

[ChrisA]

Actually two dumb questions.

1. What does the "Z" stand for?

2. What does "HLS30" stand for?

From what I've read and been told. Nissan picked Z because its the end and is the ultimate, nothing comes after it. I've probably butchered that some but its been awhile since I re-read my Z history.

Chris A.

[gogriz91]

From what I've read and been told. Nissan picked Z because its the end and is the ultimate, nothing comes after it. I've probably butchered that some but its been awhile since I re-read my Z history.

Chris A.

Same story I heard...can't remember if it was Nissan or Mr K but that's the one, Z is the end all to all.

[Spridal]

Thanks all

[zbane]

from what I recall, the "z" was Nissan's internal marking for the car, similar to, say, Honda's "H" frame. The good doctor felt that the "Fairlady" monoker would not do well here (not a manly name for a sports car) so he chose to go with the "Z." As I recall, anyway.

I think that the z is the end stuff just sounded better, more mysterious.

[1 Bravo 6]

Well now,

Ian, .... you've managed to confuse me. (Rather EASY to do at times).

If "L" as in "L24", "L26", etc. stands for "Left", ....... how come my 260Z's engine isn't designated as an "R"26 ??????????????????????????????????, as our cars are "R"ight hand drive.

Rick.

:devious: :devious:

[Carl Beck]

Project File:

Like any major corporation, Nissan assigned Project File Numbers to most of their internal projects, primarily for accounting purposes.

According to Brian Long, who spent quite a bit of time with Nissan's Historian in Japan, Mr. Hara, the Head of the Product Planning Department , assigned the project file name "Design Project Z" because "X" and "Y" had previously been assigned to earlier projects.

As I understood it - Mr. Matsuo, the head of the Sports Car Styling Studio, had a department budget, and within that budget, he could spend his budget developing the various design/styling concepts he wanted. (with the overview of his Supervisor of course). Past "Styling Concepts" when a specific concept was approved for farther development, where significant funds would be expended on it - it got its own Project Number assigned by Mr. Hara and of course the funding required to proceed..

In his book, as Mr. Matsuo outlines his story of how the Z Car was designed and developed, he tell us that once Mr. Katayama selected Mr. Matsuo's "Plan A" Styling from among the alternatives presented at the end of 1967, - the Project finally started to move forward past Concept and Styling.. and Engineering was called in.. the Project got the "Z" application at that point and it just stuck with the car.

Mr. Hara was the Director in charge of both the Styling Studio's and the Design Engineering Departments... So projects involving cross department funding were assigned Project Numbers by him.

So I believe that the answer to your original question - what does Z stand for ?- would be it stood for the Project File Number for "Design Project Z".

As far as the meaning of the letter "Z" to the Japanese... there seems to be several stories.

FWIW,

Carl B.

[Sailor Bob]

I humbly submit: I have read that the designers of the original "Z" car were an aircraft design group from pre WWII Japan whose talents were put to use in the auto industry during post war retooling.

These designers were responsible for the success of the notoriously historic Japanese fighter the "Zero". Hence "Z" car - doesn't it look and fit a little like a something ready to take off.

A good freind of mine recently dropped by to veiw my late aquisition and remarked "I feel like I'm in a cockpit of a plane - It wraps right around you". I made no remark, but I probably smirked a little.

Fact or fiction - it's not up to me to say, but it's not my imagination, merely the printed word from a version of Z history. I kinda like it.

Interesting note :

Z Car Roots or "Z" Stands For ZERO

Contributed By: Carl Beck, IZCC #260

E-Mail: beck@becksystems.com

[HS30-H]

I humbly submit: I have read that the designers of the original "Z" car were an aircraft design group from pre WWII Japan whose talents were put to use in the auto industry during post war retooling.

No. You ( they ) are getting Nissan mixed up with the Prince Motor Co.

When Prince was merged with Nissan, the ex-Prince faction managed to keep themselves fairly intact within the Nissan fold, and continued their work on the Skyline and other ex-Prince models ( and much of the race-oriented ex-Prince activities ) at the Murayama facility. The Z was hatched at Oppama. There was a certain amount of inter-faction rivalry between the two sides that still lingers to this day.

Interesting note :

Z Car Roots or "Z" Stands For ZERO

So, no it doesn't.

[ChrisA]

Sorry, a little off topic regarding "Z" letter. The language fascinates me. I'm attempting to learn some basics as far as reading goes. But pronunciation is a different matter all together. Learning that the Japanese alphabet has 99 sounds formed with 5 vowels (a, e, i, o, u) and 14 consonants (k, s, t, h, m, y, r, w, g, z, d, b, p, and n) but there are two kinds of alphabets, Hiragana and Katakana. I get confused and frustrated rather quick. And the Kanji...well that's another story.

Good discussion going here though. I need to find the reference book where I read about names and such.

Chris A.

[Sailor Bob]

To further the point: Quoting Carl's article

- In 1966 the Prince Motor Company Ltd. was merged into Nissan Motors Ltd.

- From its design phase in 1966 until it's production release in 1968 the Datsun 510 "somehow"" received:

a) a super strong and lightweight uni-body (monocoque aircraft technology)

an over head cam, 1600cc engine rated at 97HP (from Prince)

c) fully independent rear suspension (evolved from De Dion to Chapman)

d) a ZF style fully synchro's 4spd.

- From 1966 to early 68 The Dastun 240-Z is in design..

a) super strong and very lightweight uni-body

2.4L ohc rated at 151HP with Twin SU's

c) IRS rear suspension (Chapman struts)

d) a ZF style fully synchro's 4 and 5 speed

The ZERO was built using modular production techniques, as opposed to the more common straight line "assembly-line" production. The application of these modular approaches revolutionized the auto industry in Japan in the late 60's and early 70's. Many industrial engineers believe that was a major factor in Japan's ability to take over automotive markets around the world. (Productivity Matters no matter how cheap the labor).

"Weight" was the enemy of the ZERO design team and maneuverability was their goal. Likewise the 240-Z.

Many of the engineers that worked from 1939 to 1941 on the ZERO, in the Japanese Aircraft Industry - were the engineers that after the war went into the Auto Industry - and mainly wound up at Prince Motors.. For that reason in the 1950's Prince Motors was the most advanced technologically and had the best automotive engineering capabilities in Japan.

All previous Fairlady Sports Cars were full frame, bolted on bodies, solid axle... rooted firmly in the design and technology of the 1940's and 1950's. They didn't get overhead cam engines until after Prince Motors was merged into Nissan.

Prince Engineers brought with them - new (new to Nissan Motors) Engineering Processes, Tools, Techniques and most importantly application experience with technologies not present at Nissan before they arrived. All of which take an Engineering Department years and years, if not decades, to evolve on their own. "Change" is something that Engineers just don't like to interject in anything - especially in the way they do things...;-)

It is quite possible to bring new Engineering Processes, Design Techniques, Analysis & Simulation Tools and Production Technologies into an existing Engineering Department - but it takes years and years if not a decade for engineers to accept them, to learn to use them and then apply them to a design effort. I doubt that the Nissan Engineers could have made that transition any quicker, without bringing new Engineering talent in from Prince Motors.

That is why it was not possible to "evolve" the Fairlady line of roadsters - into a car like the 240-Z. It took a revolution in the Automotive Design and Engineering Department at Nissan. Books written about the Fairlady Sports Cars from Nissan should end with the cancellation of the A550X project at the end of 1964... as that was the end of the line for the automotive design engineering and technology that had evolved on it's own within Nissan Motors after WW II.

Likewise Books written about the history of the Z Car should start with the ZERO as that is the true evolutionary path of the technology and Design Engineering that was used in the development the Datsun 240-Z.

The Datsun 240-Z represents "Engineering Ingenuity" and in that regard, Prince Motors was Decades ahead of Nissan.

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