Body Kit Help

[Midnight-280Z]

hey everyone, i am planning on getting the MSA Type 3 front bumper and was wondering how is the fitment. i heard that the rear bumper and side skirts don't fit well. I am undecided on a Kaminari or the MSA type 3 side skirts any opinions? i like the look of Kaminari since it is close to stock. Also would anyone recommed a MSA Type 2 rear bumper? my car is a 1975 280Z THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP. any pics would be great

[hls30.com]

Unless someone recorded their install, you might be better off to buy the firberglass tape from Z-Therapy.

http://www.ztherapy.com/products/videos/FiberglassInstallVideo.htm

The production quality isn't that great, but the info is top notch!

WIll

[TBK1]

Had the msa II installed and it was alot ALOT of fitting, grinding, filling ect..

they sent the wrong kit first time and it looked worse as far as molding goes.

I will post link to my pics!

http://www.classiczcars.com/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=7742

[waynekarnes]

have the same kit.

the under the door moldings are twisted laterally. when the rear fits, the front is about an 1/2 an inch from the front fender.

the driver's side is worse than the passenger side, almost an inch difference.

wonder if the molds are that poor or the glass shrinks when it dries.

could you share your secrets ?

i was considering cutting a stress relief, twisting the moldings and reglassing the cuts.

how did you hang the front dam ?

thanks, wayne

[TBK1]

bolted and spacers to take up gap between the back lip of dam and area where the valance mounted, but you still get abit of movement out of it. the wheel lips where screwed to rim of whell wheel then camo with filler! Starting to show stress cracks on side skirts at the back , I guess from the twisting!

[waynekarnes]

thanks for info.

this was posted at hybridz.org

i am not 100 percent sure i follow it.

seems to me, be easier to build up and grind on the part being installed.

the poster suggests one can build a flange by using the car's body as the guide.

sand the flange you made on the body to match the body kit.

i am tempted to try this.

ANOTHER question : i'm gonna finish the body work on my 72. primer and paint the car. now, do i primer and paint the kit off the car or primer and paint the car with the kit on it. stock z color, med blue. i think it has a light metallic in it.

ou are SO right Mike, but that is because 99% of all manufactures are using Poylester and Vinylester resins to build their molds and parts with instead of the more stable and expensive Epoxy resin . I ONLY build with Epoxy due to its stable non-warping, non-degrading state. It does cost a great deal more up front,but the end results are obvious and lasting.

As far as the kit fitments on the MSA parts,I've got one of the full kits here and took a good look at it.Its a standard thats common.It has NO "face to body flange" . Meaning there isn't a flange that contacts the metal of the car,only a stabbing unfinished edge of glass rubbing the paint on the car !

(EDIT): however,the other MSA kit here, does have an ill fitting partial flange ! It STILL would require modification as stated above to make right !

Here's a way to get a perfect fit for you guys (providing your shop of choice or YOU,are willing to do it).

..........With bumpers off......cut a strip of wax paper long enough to wrap clear across the area where the part will make contact to the body. Tape this in place.Place the part into its final resting place for fitment and use a permanaent marker to give the top outline onto the wax paper.Remove the part. Now use some fiberglass strips wetted out with resin, and place them ON the line (wax paper line) going just about a quarter of an inch over the line and the ends of where the part ends.Let the first layer GEL,then repeat with more strips. Three builds with cloth and mat should suffice for this step.

NOW....once the strips of glass has dried,(no longer tacky) Take a 36 grit sander and somewhat smooth out the texture of the glass so there are NO high spots.

Reposition your body part...and attatch your newly made flange to your body part(with more glass mat/cloth and resin )that now has a " Body matched" fitment ! Of course all finishing stages are neccasary before final paint.

Now,I gotta get back to work !.................Vinny

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70 240Z - Widebody RB26DETT AWD Carbon Fiber body

68 2000 - Roadster,V6 turbo,steel flares

73 240Z - 3.0,T3/T04E,Tial 40mm,Wolf-3D,Veilside17x9.5

74 260Z - T4/T3,44 Solex,C/F airbox,ZG's,G-nose,Scarab wing

Last edited by Vintage-TechZ : 01-10-2005 at 07:56 PM.

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01-08-2005 #15

blueovalz

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Join Date: Aug 2000

Location: Little Rock, AR, usa

Posts: 2,505

Good post Vinny! I would like to inject a tip into the above idea, of which is an excellent idea of provide a "fitted" part (and one I've used many times). My experience with this lends me to use 2" masking tape applied carefully over the body (with minimal overlap between strips of tape) that you want covered in glass. Fiberglass does not bond well with masking tape and will provide an almost perfect match, especially in areas where compount curves or ridges exist. I have used was paper, as well as other "film" mediums and found that they sometimes will not follow changes in the body's shape (unless the part is very flat or has a single dimension curve).

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BlueOvalZ photo documentation

Last edited by blueovalz : 01-08-2005 at 12:16 PM.

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01-10-2005 #16

DeusEx

Member

Join Date: May 2004

Location: Brisbane Australia

Posts: 104

So has everyone who has ordered an MSA kit had these troubles with Gaps?

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01-11-2005 #17

PBooty

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Join Date: Oct 2003

Location: Santa Barbara, CA

Posts: 83

thanks for all the input guys...

one thing though.. the body shop guy suggested that it wouldn't be a good idea to bondo the kit to the body. I would look nicer, but having a one piece body would prove to be costly if repairs were necessary.

I suggested that he used body filler to extend that matting edge of the bumpers to eliminate the gaps. This way the bumper and the body would remain separated. Is my suggestion applicable? Will it work?

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01-11-2005 #18

Vintage-TechZ

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Join Date: Sep 2003

Location: Springfield Missouri & Sacramento

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My suggestion is to NEVER graft/bond full body kits to a unibody car. Even welding steel to steel for a "smoothy" look can cost you a second ,third or even bi-annual paint job unless the the car never leaves a climate controlled level floor !

In fact, one of my best friends is suffering the fate of this as we speak,and opted to simply sell the car at a loss in order to avoid the expense of redo/repair. And he's admitted to me he feels like a FOOL for not listening to me. The sad fact is it WAS a beautiful Z ! Cracking all to hell now.

Go back and re-read my instructions again for the body kit parts FLANGES ! It describes quickly how to eliminate your gaps and have a PRO fit ...EVERYWHERE on your fiberglass parts ! No permanent BONDING other than your choice of hidden fasteners (totally removable/repaintable ).

Always sweat the BODYWORK and epoxy primer ! MAke those perfect and the painter will follow ! If he's worth his SALT .

But alas......this IS why I do alll of the work on my Z's myself. No guessing about others capability and BS ability.

Learning curves burn on both ends...choose.

Vinny

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[hls30.com]

If you tape the waxpaper to the car, then use a heat gun to soften the wax, it will stick to the paint, and will not move around while you apply the resin and cloth/mat.

If you bond the fiberglass on with epoxy resin and let it go through atleast a week of typical temperature changes, then do the filler work and allow the same, then do the final body work and paint, you will not have the cracking problems that palgue many glassed in parts. Frequently the chemistry in the bonding is not complete before the paint goes on. I apply the materials, then rough in the area, then I usually give atleast three weeks outside before I sew up body work that required bonding-I coat the area with a couple of thin coats of rattle can black laquer and park the car with that area in the noon-day sun-to get the greatest temperature variation . The laquer will be completely sanded off before final contouring and priming. After three weeks of as dramatic temperature changes as black laquer and south Georgia sunshine will provide, the chemistry is done, and the area is stable in terms of expansion. I learned this technique when bonding the rear tub to the fenders of a '77 Z on my Alpha one project-since 1997 I have had no cracks, blisters, or repairs of any kind needed to the bonded areas. . I have seen many professional shops have to go back and repair beautifully blended work in a year or two because it was painted too soon after bodywork-funny, they never take credit for the problem! Professional body shops have to turn projects-sometimes because of pressure from the owner-through the system quickly-sometimes at the expense of the longevity of the job. My first Z had some filler spread on the lower rear quarters-looked great for about six months, then started falling off in sheets-that was part of why I got deeply into doing my own work-the shop that did it warranted the paint for a year, but offered no warranty on bog falling off due to its direct application to RUST! They also lost the hood and fender emblems, and smeared bog over the holes(did I mention I only owned the car for three days before my parents bought me the body work/ paint job?). The car was beautiful when I got it back, but the holes became visible as bulges under the paint within a few weeks-then I compared the pre-paint photos of the car, and went and had my first experience with chewing arse. They bought and installed new emblems, but...

Will

[waynekarnes]

hmmm,

maybe i am seeing this all wrong.

are you suggesting that one lays up the strips of glass on the body and while the fiberglass is still wet attach the kit parts and let it dry for a few days.

seems like it would be hard to get the kit parts mounted without knocking the strips of glass loose.

or let the laid up strips dry for a few days ?

then sanding them to match the body kit ?

something here i'm not visualizing.

[hls30.com]

I'm not sure what the other guys do, but I mount the glass parts (using clamps,screws, rivets-what ever temporary fasteners are needed) in place first, then I prep them for more glass, clean everything, mount the wax papaer, mount the parts again, wax the temporary fasteners(to keep the epoxy from making them hard to remove-or ruining them) and make the flanges on the car. That way they fit perfectly, and add stability to the new shape of the original part. Once again, leaving them temporarliy installed I put the car out in the sun for a couple of weeks-and spray paint the parts black. The parts are stabilized by the heat and the clamping, and are ready for final finishing/bonding to the car.

WIll

[waynekarnes]

so, get a test fitting with the body kit parts.

remove the kit parts.

run the wax paper.

temp remount the kit parts.

run a line on the wax paper marking the top of the kit part.

remove the kit part.

sand the parts where they meet the body, so that they will absorb and stick to the glass strips.

lay the strips of glass soaked wit resin and catalyst on the wax paper, estimating the thickness of the space between the kit part and the car's body.

while the strips are still sticky, temp remount the body kit part back on the car. compressing the kit into the strips of fiber glass.

this will create a flange for the body kit and fill the spaces between the kit and the body.

is this correct ?

if not, please correct me step by step.

much appreciate your help !

want to make sure i get this right .

by the by, do you know Dave Mc Kenzie, buford ga. ?

[hls30.com]

basic order of events

test fit, trim, correct, and temporarliy mount the body parts.

Remove the parts, and sand them where they meet the body, so that they will absorb and stick to the glass strips.

run the wax paper.

temp remount the kit parts-waxing the mounting harware

push the strips of glass dampened(not soaked) with resin and catalyst on the wax paper, any extra material will flow out from the mounting pressure.

this will create a fitted flange for the body kit and fill the spaces between the kit and the body.

Make sure you cover the floor of your work area-if it is important to anyone, wear clothes that can be thrown away-you Will get resin on them, Wear surgical gloves, and a hat-you will be working from underneath, and drips will get on you. I suggest you make "a wet run", using paper towels and water as resin and cloth/mat, this is messy business.

I will write up and post a detailed article about this in the next day or two, there are a bunch of tips I should add that I can't think of now...long day...

Will

[waynekarnes]

gotcha !

thanks !

getting late in Ga.

good night