Maybe I'm too much of a purist, but...

[rdefabri]

To each their own. However, seeing how the 240Z is gaining in value and collectability, I cringe at this.

Ok, I'd accept if one wasn't numbers matching or non-original in other ways, but imagine doing this to a Ferrari or Mid Year Corvette (yes, I have seen them). While a 240Z may not be worth as much as those cars, I don't think many thought Mopars or Mid Year Corvette's would be worth over $100K restored.

Just my 2 cents, but when Sports Car Market gives props to the Z, you know it's arrived (or arriving).

[sblake01]

Just my 2 cents, but when Sports Car Market gives props to the Z, you know it's arrived (or arriving).

That won't happen in this lifetime. The collector car market-at-large just doesn't recognize the Japanese cars and their position in automotive history and thus doesn't place the value on them like muscle cars or vintage European and American cars.

[rdefabri]

Not true:

http://www.sportscarmarket.com/profiles/2003/February/Etceterini/index.html

Per this article written in 2003, they estimate the 240Z at $8,000 - $12,000 for a restored example. We know now that some restored examples may be more than that.

Factor in the rust problem (e.g., few good examples left) and the hype the 240Z generated, that's a recipe for appreciation. Will the Z ever be a $1M car? No, but could it be a $50K car - it's possible. Heck, one of our own members sold his for $15K, so this is not unreasonable.

If it's in Sports Car Market, it's a valid collectable. Keith Martin is well respected in the collector industry. Frankly, I was shocked they had not one, but two profiles on the site dedicated to the 240Z.

[hls30.com]

Petersons Museum doesn't have one...and they profess to have everything that changed the car market through time...

Will

[toecutter]

BTW: What kind of wheels are those Toecutter? and what kinda of wheels did you photoshop in your avatar Gav?

ROH 3 piece custom wheels made here in Australia.

[KenshinX]

ahhh thats to bad me getting a set of those would probably outta my wallet range

[madkaw]

i wonder what size wheels and tires they are??. I'm thinking 205's, because I don't want to make that mistake with zg's if i go that route. I'd love to see 8 inch rims and 225's or 245's with the flares to see how it fills the gaurds. I believe both Gav and Toecutter have good looking cars (with the stripes) so that's why I don't mind what this guy did with his car.

[sblake01]

Not true:

http://www.sportscarmarket.com/profiles/2003/February/Etceterini/index.html

Per this article written in 2003, they estimate the 240Z at $8,000 - $12,000 for a restored example. We know now that some restored examples may be more than that.

Factor in the rust problem (e.g., few good examples left) and the hype the 240Z generated, that's a recipe for appreciation. Will the Z ever be a $1M car? No, but could it be a $50K car - it's possible. Heck, one of our own members sold his for $15K, so this is not unreasonable.

If it's in Sports Car Market, it's a valid collectable. Keith Martin is well respected in the collector industry. Frankly, I was shocked they had not one, but two profiles on the site dedicated to the 240Z.

None of that disprooves what I said which was 'not in this lifetime'. Sure I'd love to see Z's go for $50K. But at that point, COPO cars will be going for $300K.

[rdefabri]

With respect, I am not even 40 - it's a given that in my lifetime we'll see $50K Z cars. We already have $30K Z cars...

You are certainly entitled to your opinion - I am a collector of a ton of different things from baseball cards to old toys to cars - you can never say why someone appraises something at the level they do, but they do.

Your original comment was

"The collector car market-at-large just doesn't recognize the Japanese cars and their position in automotive history and thus doesn't place the value on them like muscle cars or vintage European and American cars."

I've already stated Keith Martin and Sports Car Market have declared the Z car "collectible". Now, I will name a second authority - this month's "Motor Trend Classic" - one of the editors noted the 240Z as "highly collectible".

The 240Z is collectible and recognized as such. Perhaps the second part of your statement with regards to value has some merit, but a good 240Z will outsell a good MGB, Triumph GT6, Triumph Spitfire, Opel GT, Corvair Monza, Alfa Romeo Spyder (maybe a wash), Porsche 914, 944, and older 911s.

Based on that logic, I guess my Jaguar E-Type isn't collectible either since "mid year" Corvettes (1963 - 1967), Ferraris, Mopars, etc. will EASILY outsell it.

I agree a 240Z won't be valued like a classic Ferrari - EVER. Just too many built and it's original mission as a mass production car dictates as much. However, I think you'll see steady increases in value for good examples - especially as many are modified or rusted.

I would think Carl Beck might weigh in on this, he's pretty much the guru on this.

[Carl Beck]

That won't happen in this lifetime. The collector car market-at-large just doesn't recognize the Japanese cars and their position in automotive history and thus doesn't place the value on them like muscle cars or vintage European and American cars.

Hi Stephen (everyone):

From that statement, I might get the impression that you view the "collector car market-at-large" as a more or less static group of people. In my lifetime, it hasn't actually seemed to that way.

The truth is that the market-at-large didn't recognize the value of Muscle Cars 20 years ago either. At that point it was the Exotic Sports Cars that were fetching unbelievable prices. (Ferraris, Gull Wing 300SL's) A 68 Shelby Mustang 500KR was worth about $18K then, and now sells for well over $125K now. A Ferrari Dayton was worth upwards of $500K then and now sells for around $150K.

Looking at the dynamics of the collector car market, it would seem that the Z's are now being recognized, and if they follow the usual trends you might see a $50K Z in a couple of years. Of course the super rare one's are already well over that amount, but not yet really in the market-at-large as they change hands with private sales.

Nonetheless, I'd have to say that the market-at-large is just starting to recognize the Datsun 240-Z and its place in automotive history.

FWIW,

Carl B.

[Carl Beck]

Not true:

http://www.sportscarmarket.com/profiles/2003/February/Etceterini/index.html

Per this article written in 2003, they estimate the 240Z at $8,000 - $12,000 for a restored example. We know now that some restored examples may be more than that.

Factor in the rust problem (e.g., few good examples left) and the hype the 240Z generated, that's a recipe for appreciation. Will the Z ever be a $1M car? No, but could it be a $50K car - it's possible. Heck, one of our own members sold his for $15K, so this is not unreasonable.

Hi RJ:

I know of several private sales where the prices paid for First Generation Z's has exceeded $30K and one went for over $39K. I think that we'll see private sales exceed $50K in the next few years for the super rare, perfect, extremely low mileage stock production cars in the group. (if the over-all economy holds..)

While I personally haven't seen the money change hands - it would seem that the market for Z432's in Japan runs in the $65K to $125K USD range. I would think that one of the few remaining Factory Works 240-Z's would sell today in that range as well.

If it's in Sports Car Market, it's a valid collectable. Keith Martin is well respected in the collector industry. Frankly, I was shocked they had not one, but two profiles on the site dedicated to the 240Z.

I personally felt that Keith Martin held lower expectations than reality. Especially given the fact that Nissan sold about 38 Vintage Z's all above the $24K range back in 98/99. By 2003 I sure couldn't find a "restored 240-Z" here in the States for $12K. "Restored" meaning as the term is used in the Collector Car Market.

I will say that Keith and others may simply be following the public auctions; but that really isn't tracking the market. Many collector cars are taken to auction only after they fail to sell privately, which usually means they weren't of a high enough quality to begin with.

FWIW,

Carl B.

[rdefabri]

Carl,

Excellent points, and I agree with you on Keith Martin. However, I used him as a "validation" point, as I am no expert and don't bring a lot of credibility to the discussion. Thanks for the data, I had no idea some were sold above $30K!

I primarily purchased my 240Z since I had a Z when I was a kid (and it was affordable). I always knew they would appreciate, but I didn't realize as much as they have. I am quite happy as I purchased fairly low, and I think I could sell for much higher (not a chance that's happening - I love the car!).

Back to the original discussion, I only hope that more people recognize that the 240Z's place in history and do what they can to restore these wonderful cars back to original shape.