Waking the sleeping beast?

[mikemeade]

I have rebuilt the british SUs four or five times now, so I think that I should be able to do these. I do know what you mean though, there is a lot of exact details in getting the carbs just right. At the moment, I kinda like the foam air filters, we'll have to see how they clean up. Hopefully they will be dry by tonight!

[ChrisA]

Glad to hear you're familiar with the carbs and have the air cleaners. From your two engine pics I wasnt sure they were there when you got the hood open.

Continued good luck to you Mike. I hope she fires right up for you.

Chris A.

[mikemeade]

Yeah, I have the foam pieces. They required a lot of cleaning. There was a layer of dirt on them so thick that I couldn't see foam or metal on them. I washed and washed until the water didn't seem black with dirt. They have been drying in the basement for the last couple of days. (It might have been too cold down there) Today I moved them into the sun inside my kitchen, so hopefully they will actually get dry.

I'm aiming to turn the engine over this weekend, we'll see how things go. If I get the car running, it will be running from a gas can, and a battery charger... I don't want to spend a bunch of money on the car if the engine comes back toast. I've got my fingers crossed though.

[mikemeade]

Did you get the hood open yet?...

Check!

1. As mentioned, I'd drain the gas tank and see what comes out. If it's full of rusty partials - drop the tank and have it boiled out (some radiator repair shops off that service). Plan on replacing the old rubber fuel lines as well as the vapor recovery lines that run into the passenger compartment. You will more than likely have to do this anyway - as the vapor recovery lines leak gasoline vapor into the passenger compartment - and it will give you headaches and drive you out of the car. Do it now and be done with it. It's not fun, takes some time - but you'll be glad you did it all at once....

Yes, not fun indeed. I have the tank half off, but I can't seem to figure out how to get access to remove the filler hose... working on it though. I may start the engine from a gas can temporarily.

2. As mentioned, replace all the fuel lines in the engine compartment.

Check!

3. No doubt you need to check the carb's for operation - the vacuum slides get stuck... pull them apart and clean them... The flat tops look odd - but they are pretty much the same as the earlier SU's.. as far a basic operation goes..

The slides are free, the choke appears to function, I cleaned the air filters, and I think that I'll rebuild later if I can't get them tuned!

4. Might as well replace the upper and lower radiator hoses - you'll have to do that anyway - do it now before you loose the fresh coolant you put in later.

Definitly still on the checklist. I filled the radiator/engine with water for now, if a hose lets go right when I start the car, I will only lose water

5. Pull the spark plugs and poor a couple ounces of ATF in the cylinders... let it sit over night.. poor a little more in the next day... then - see if you can rotate the crank pulley by hand... if you have a large Strap Wrench it helps... of course you'll remove the old fan belt first - as you have already bought a new one... (when you bought the new hoses, oil, filter, coolant)... If you can't rock the crank back and forth by hand - put the car in low gear and push the car forward/backward (air the tires up and it's easier to hand push!). The idea here is to break the cylinder rings loose, and get some oil between them and cylinder walls. The ATF is very high detergent and very thin... Once you break the cylinders loose by rocking the car - poor a bit more ATF in the cylinders and see if you can now rock the engine back and forth by hand...

I did the ATF, in fact its been soaking about three days now... Rotating the crank is next.

6 - Now drain the old oil - replace with fresh oil and new filter...

8. Install new NGK BP6ES spark plugs

9. Install new starting battery... and make sure that the oil battery cables are in good shape and very clean at the terminals..

All on the to do list. The battery is currently removed, I thought that I would try throwing a charge at it just to see what happens. Filter and oil are purchased and ready to go.

10. Remove the valve cover - and poor some clean oil over the cam lobes and rocker arm pads..replace the valve cover - (just check to be sure all the rockers are on/in-place..)

Done! I do have a couple questions about the bar that runs over the rockers. There was one piece which seemed loose, but I'll post pictures later tonight.

11. pull the wire from the coil - and crank the engine over rapidly - you should at least see the oil pressure gauge move... at least a little to indicate your getting oil pressure... replace the coil wire and crank it over - it will take a few seconds to get fuel though the new lines and into the carb.'s... USE THE CHOKE! (you almost always have to choke the old Z's to get them started when the engine is cold).

If it doesn't start - then you can start checking for Fuel at the Carb.'s - and Spark at the plugs etc...

Man, I thought that I was almost there, but there are still a lot of things left on this list! I think that I'll go try to turn the engine, and see what happens.

[mikemeade]

well I went out and tried to rotate the engine. No dice. Either I wasn't strong enough, or the engine was stuck.. The wrench on the pulley would not move. I figured, what the heck, I'll try putting the car in 4th and rocking it back and forth. No joy. I pushed and pushed and rocked the car, and nothing happened. I tried first gear next, still no luck. At this point in time, I was getting kinda ticked off... I stuck the car in 4th again, just to see what would happen. I rocked a couple times, and POP! The entire passenger side of the engine bay is covered in ATF. (I had been soaking the cylinders)

So the engine has broken free! I then switched to rotating the engine by hand. It rotates fine to a point. There is definitly a point in both directions where the pulley stops. I'm imagining the worst. possible the bores are messed up enough that the pistons cant get back past the point where they were stuck? I don't really know. Should I hold off trying to start the engine? What should I do next?

[beandip]

I wouldn't start the engine until you can rotate the engine completely and it will rotate freely . Keep oil in the cylinders so they remain well lubed. One thing , when the engine is stopped there is always two valves open . Moisture can enter there and also rust the valve stems as well . If a valve sticks open bad things happen to pistons and the valve , so be sure all is moving freely before starting. As to the old Battery . It is a waist of time to try and charge one that has been in dead in the car for a length of time like this. It is possible that the rust in the cylinder will clean up . Just watch the oil consumption after you are driving the car . Gary PS there is a all Datsun Show at Blue Lake Park in Gresham this Sunday the 13th.

[Carl Beck]

.... I then switched to rotating the engine by hand. It rotates fine to a point. There is definitly a point in both directions where the pulley stops. I'm imagining the worst. possible the bores are messed up enough that the pistons cant get back past the point where they were stuck? I don't really know. Should I hold off trying to start the engine? What should I do next?

Rotate the engine to the point at which it stops... add more ATF to the cylinders and let it sit for at least 8 hours... then work it back and forth by hand. Then rotate it the opposite direct to where it stops.. add more ATF, let it sit for at least 8 hours - and work it by hand again. Yes it is possible that when it broke loose, it left some crud ridges above or below a couple of the rings.

Your better than half way there.. take your time and let the oil soak.. Sounds like you will be able to save this engine!!

As Gary mentioned - leave the valve cover off while you are rocking/rotating the engine - and watch to see that all the valves are returning to their full closed positions...

That "bar" that runs along the rockers is the "oil spray bar". It is not unusual for them to come loose or come apart. Unbolt it from the cam tower - clean it out real well and solder the loose end back in.

good luck,

Carl

[Carl Beck]

Check!

Yes, not fun indeed. I have the tank half off, but I can't seem to figure out how to get access to remove the filler hose... working on it though. I may start the engine from a gas can temporarily.

Right behind the right rear tire.. there is an access panel held in the inner-fender by about four small screws. Take the RR Tire off to get it out of your way... remove that access panel ... and you should be able to get your hand on the filler hose and filler neck of the tank. There is a large hose clamp that holds the filler neck to the tank - remove it... then as you drop the left side of the tank down - - very gently rock the tank fore/aft, then up/down and usually the filler neck will drop out of the filler hose..

Be careful as you rock the tank - that you don't bend the body work below the rear bumper..

[Rainman]

Hey Mike,

How's your progress? I've been watching your thread as you work through your Z's partially rotating engine. My 260Z is in a similar state and I have been working through Mr. Beck's awakening list as well. My thread is "Hello from Oregon" (I live down south in Medford). Hang in there and don't give up! I'll be watching for your updates and hoping for the best for you! Take care and enjoy the weekend.

Tom.

[Doehring]

Great thread. Good luck Mike, take care and be patient. The Z engine is strong and could also belong to a tractor , some people say.

Rolf

[mikemeade]

Believe it or not, I've been taking things slow.... Really slow... I have had a ton of non car things to do lately. I think that the next thing to do on my list is to drain the oil, and then I would like to drop the pan and see what kind of sludge I have to deal with. The gas tank is now out, and I will probably send it off to be cleaned next week. I'm quite exhausted after my buddy's wedding this weekend, so I may need a day or two to rest before I get back to the car. It's calling me though, I need to get it running. Now the engine doesn't stick, so I figure I can test fire the engine after I am sure what the bottom of the engine looks like.

Good luck to you too Tom. My in-laws are in Medford. Maybe someday I'll get this car running well enough to visit them... But thats a long ways off.

[Rainman]

Thanks a bunch for the update Mike, I was certain you hadn't forgotten about it! It's fun to keep up with your progress since the situation surrounding our cars is so similar. Glad to hear that your engine isn't sticking any more! Just keep pressing on and we'll both get there eventually! I hope the recovery from your buddy's wedding is speedy as well. Be sure and give me shout should you end up down south in Medford. Will catch up with you one of these days...