Drums or Discs for '71?

[GeoffT]

I'm having rear brake problems (among other things) on my modified '71 and believe that the drums are out of spec. The car already has various upgrades made by the last owner including adjustable suspension, modified head, agressive cam, triple Mikunis, etc. Given that new drums would cost around $200, should I consider adding a bolt-on disc package instead of investing in the drums?

If so, any suggestions for a specific package or vendor? Also, will a new porportioning valve be needed? Thanks for any advice.

BTW - I'm a former SCCA track worker from St. Louis. Does anybody recall seeing the awesome yellow Z racer of Logan Blackburn back in the late 70s?

[c david]

i was recently asked if i want to buy a rear suspension, struts-breaks. ect by a current scca board leader. if you are interested in his setup send me a pm. used for sure but a winning set up no doubt.

cd

this logan? yep.

http://wspr-racing.com/wspr/results/imsa/imsagt1982.html

[zguitar71]

Disc brakes will probably not perform much better than the drums (unless you are road racing) but they are easier to maintain and they do look better if you have larger wheels. It is really a preference choice. If your going to do it get (IMO) the brakes from www.arizonazcar.com or something like it from another dealer. If you are going all new parts and piecing it together from other z and Datsun models the cost is not too far off the AZC brakes which are much nicer than the pieced together stuff.

[GeoffT]

Guys -thanks for your suggestions. I think my next step will be to get a closer look at the wheel cylinders and see if they also need replacing. Just as soon as my daytime garage temperatures get below 90 - it's been damn hot here in N. Texas!

[Pir0San]

GeoffT, if you decide to change out the rear brakes to 280ZX disc brakes, log onto Ebay, and buy the disc conversion brackets from theramz. I know him personally, and he machines these brackets himself. He has quite a few years worth of experience, and is so assured of the quality of said brackets that he even warranties them! After getting the brackets, you just need to source the rotors and calipers. I believe he even has a writeup for the conversion itself.

[beandip]

I was holding off on doing the disk conversion, however today I was shopping around and priced the wheel cylinders for my '73 . At $75.00 each just for the wheel cylinders , I think I will be doing the upgrade soon . Gary:classic:

[Gav240z]

I'm considering the same thing. I want to keep drums for originality sake but the maintenaince issues and cost of keeping them is almost identical to the cost of upgrading so to me it's not really worth while.

I'd like to go with the AZC brakes also. Drums require constant adjustment and CAN work really well but for the sake of simplicity and looks to me the drums will go on a shelf.

Luckily they can easily be changed back later for originality sake.

[Arne]

Speaking as someone with years of experience doing brakes on other poeple's cars, I'll dispute the idea that drums are more maintenance than discs. Done right, drum brakes on a 240/260/280Z will require virtually no maintenance over the life of the shoes. (Assuming - of course - that you use the parking brake regularly. You do, don't you?) And those shoes are likely to last far longer than the pads on a rear disc setup. The disc brake conversion uses calipers which have the parking brake ratchet inside the piston, which is great as long as all is good, but when it goes bad it can be catastrophic. Add the fact that for street driving there is almost no stopping advantage over the drums, and I don't see much reason to convert.

[Gav240z]

Hi Arne, thank you for sharing your knowledge.

For me I've had constant problems with my drums I'll list them here.

- First undersized drums from too much machining (obviously not the drums fault).

- Found a replacement set which are within' tolerances however there are minor cracks near the mounting holes (wheel threads) probably from overheating.

- Constantly having to adjust either they are too tight and rubbing or they are too loose and not effective as a handbrake.

- Left side is too tight and makes noises when braking

My options are:

- Replace everything including:-

1. Drums
   
2. New shoes
   
3. Wheel cylinders
   
4. Brake lines (why not while I'm at it)
   
5. Handbrake cable (probably stretched)
   

or Convert to a rear disc kit like that available at Arizona Zcar

By the time I've done the above or second option the cost is probably almost the same. Or I can use a R31 Skyline caliper and braket which is practically a bolt on solution and relatively a cheap pickup from a local wreckers (In Australia). Replacement discs are far less expensive than drums are and brake pads probably more readily available.

I know drums can work really well, but when the system is aged and many items needs replacement it can be a costly endevour. If I am to spend that amount of money for me it makes more sense to upgrade.

What is the opinion of others?

[Carl Beck]

.......snipped.....

BTW - I'm a former SCCA track worker from St. Louis. Does anybody recall seeing the awesome yellow Z racer of Logan Blackburn back in the late 70s?

Hi Geoff:

It is believed that Logan's yellow Z racer, which was Red, White and Blue in prior years.. and before that it was the BRE #3 Z. It is still being raced in Vintage events, having been restored to it's original BRE #3 colors etc.

I say "it is believed" because many people believe it. Dan Parkinson doesn't however, as he is convinced that he wrecked the #3 BRE Z years after he bought it from BRE in 73. Others believe that Dan actually bought the #46 car and wrecked that one....

At any rate here's a picture of Logan's car in the late 70's... (thanks to Clark Lance of New Jersey for sending them to me).

FWIW,

Carl B.

Carl Beck

Clearwater, FL USA

http://ZHome.com

[240ZMan]

Speaking as someone with years of experience doing brakes on other poeple's cars, I'll dispute the idea that drums are more maintenance than discs. Done right, drum brakes on a 240/260/280Z will require virtually no maintenance over the life of the shoes. (Assuming - of course - that you use the parking brake regularly. You do, don't you?) And those shoes are likely to last far longer than the pads on a rear disc setup. The disc brake conversion uses calipers which have the parking brake ratchet inside the piston, which is great as long as all is good, but when it goes bad it can be catastrophic. Add the fact that for street driving there is almost no stopping advantage over the drums, and I don't see much reason to convert.

Arne, I would agree with everything you wrote for a street driven car. During the winter months that's been exactly my experience. But for the days when I'm on the track, no amount of pulling up on the parking brake will tighten the brakes back up, and my pedal gets longer every session.

Also, with my swap to the Toyota calipers and vented rotors up front, I've got too much front brake bias, so need to do something to balance things out. The rear discs with adjustable proportioning valve looks like the trick.

I'm in the process right now of gathering parts for the swap using the Modern Motorsports brackets and 240SX calpipers/300ZX rotors. I have one more track day this season in October and will hopefully have them swapped by then to see how they do.

[GeoffT]

Carl, thanks for the background on the Logan Blackburn car. When I saw and photographed it at Mid-America Raceways near St. Louis, it had red/white/blue stripes on hood and fenders and in front of the rear wheels. I thought the car was later crashed at this track by a later owner - did not know that it had any ties to BRE cars. But it was usually the fastest thing with doors at our track. -Geoff