Just venting

[Blue Meanie]

Just venting to you guys, because most of you would probably understand. Got my 72 240Z and spent the last several months rebuilding the engine, working on the interior and doing a little body. When I got her I was surprised at the condition of the body. Except for a few little dings and my daughter's bike slamming into the driver's door the body was straight. Minimal rust even in the problem areas.

By word of mouth I found a guy locally that does great work and has done several show cars and he agreed to do the clean up bodywork, final prep and paint on my Z. I dropped her off on July the 17th and told him specifically that I wanted to enter my Z in a car show in Indianapolis on the 26th of August and he said no problem. Well, the 26th came and went. When I spoke with him about it he just told me that he had work backed up and that he'd get to it.

I talked with several people out at the show and they all agreed that a Z would have definately stood out amongst the muscle cars and that I would have at least won best in class. Hell the guy that ran the show told me to go get my car and bring it unpainted. Sorry to run on, but I needed to vent and I thought you'd understand.

I'm told I'll have my car in two weeks.

[COZY Z COLE]

I feel your pain.. The following are a group of people I put under the title of " Gypsies, Liars, Tramps and Thieves." Auto body shops, Engine builders, Muffler shops, Upholstrey shops, PO of rebuilt engines and Carbs with only a few hundred miles on them, E-bay sellers, Z car part on-line companies, Mechanics who say in 30 years of working on cars your car's problem is the first time we've seen this happen, and a friend of a friend who's a Guru on something pretaining to your car. This is just a partial list of people I've dealt with who've never had anything ship or complete on the date they first gave me. Sometimes the third date or more wasn't meet either. I know I have a very modified car but oranges are oranges.....

I know the saying.."If you want it done right do it yourself"... that's not always an option.

Peace

LARRY

[cbudvet]

Hey there,

Sorry to here about your pain. I have to ask, who did you use for the body/paint. I live in Indy (Fishers, actually) and my fall/winter project is to get the body of my 70 fixed up and painted. Someone recommended a guy in Avon, who had done some good work but I was warned he was kinda slow. I would love to hear about the quality and cost of your work! Post some pictures when you get it back. Thanks. Carl

[Blue Meanie]

Soon as she gets back, I'll post up and write my review of his work.

[Ed]

My body work and paint took over 3 months. The body work was minor and the total amount of hours spent on the car was 140 (according to the bill). But I've learned to never expect anything when promised. I took some seats to get them done in leather. I dropped them off in December. Told the guy I'd be back in July to pick them up. Since then it's been, call me tomorrow. I'll have them done next week, I'm having trouble with this, that. Well it's Sept. 1st. and I still have no seats. I called him today and he said call tomorrow. If I only had a dollar discount everytime he said that. The seats would be free. Anyway, Sorry to hijack your thread. But i really do feel your pain.

[madkaw]

It must be the whole service oriented industry or just business folks in Indianapolis .I dropped my motor off to a guy on Gasoline Alley for a rebuild. I told him that I wasn't in a hurry since I was doing a restoration. That was probably my first mistake . I didn't put that much pressure on him because honestly I wasn't ready for the motor. Well to make a lllooonnnnggg story shorter , he had my engine for 2 years. In his defense , this was more then a rebuild,especially the head. And I think the Datsun head was new territory for him also. He also cut 400$ off the price of the final bill for the head for making me wait so long ,which was great since I wasn't needing the engine just yet. So patience paid off for me.Now I have to wait on the powder coater, but once again, this guy is very reasonable especially if your not in a hurry. i think it's best to just plan on any service with this hobby is going to take twice as long.

Carl, I think that was me about the body shop in Indy. Diamond collision, they were reasonably on time.

[TomoHawk]

Get your time estimates in writing! Or make up your own (contract) on a computer and get people to write deadlines on it & sign that. Maybe even cost estimates. It seems that when somebody signs off on a project, they seem to remember better that it needs to get done.

thx

[EScanlon]

FAST CORRECT CHEAP

Pick Two Only.

===

In most of the rants, I note that there's a hidden implication to get all three, while trying for the latter two only.

Most of the advertised body-shops today are generally....parts replacers. Yes, they still do some metal bumping, bondo work, etc. but for the most part....those days are gone.

The old school shop that would take the time to bump out your fender, smooth the metal, blend in the bondo, apply primer/sealer and then carefully blend in the paint to match the rest of the car....are gone. They still match the paint.....unless your car is more than a couple years old. Then they insist on a total re-paint because otherwise.... What's more, the insurance companies have gone along with it, and that's what's really funding the demise of the Craftsman Body Shop.

The Craftsman Body Man doesn't want to go "By the Book", that famous sacro-sanct MOTOR time estimate of how long it takes to fix your fender, repair your door, replace your hood, etc.. He's usually in a class all by himself, and he knows it. His shop may be named "Velvet Hammer" or "John's Body Shop" or "Hill Street Repair", but it's not a shop that you just walk in, drop your car off and pick it up next week.....usually.

The work these specialty shops do, is of such a specialized nature that it is usually only by word of mouth that you find out about them. They don't usually need to advertise. Their work speaks for itself AND most importantly, is highly sought after.

Now, these shops have their "special" clients that routinely bring in vehicles that they've bought / rescued from barns, estate sales etc. and want them taken care of properly. These clients are the ones that REALLY fund their operation. As a result, these clients receive first priority rights and most importantly, the privilege of jumping to the top of the work list.

The shop may still have some time left over, and that's where the average Joe can get his car in and have it taken care of by the old-school style of bodywork. But don't even think that he's going to be first on the priority list....unless he's paying large $ for the privilege. While you have ONE car for him to work on, and no doubt you don't want to pay large $ to get it done quickly, you will have to suffer the time wait. If you check with him OFTEN, he'll keep your car in work and you'll get it back done correctly as soon as time permits.

The guy that drops his car off and says call me when it's done, is looking more for a storage place than "I want it back next week", unless he's the big bucks client mentioned above.

So if you want a carefully executed paint job, or bump work, you have to find one of these specialty shops that caters to auto enthusiasts AND accepts walk-in clients. Then call and check on the progress, but don't become a pest. Ask to stop by and see the work, but don't nit-pick items you don't understand completely. Offer to hunt down hard to find parts, and you'll be a part of the repair process instead of the owner who doesn't know anything about how hard it is to find old/new parts but insists on getting the car back tomorrow.

Time estimates, signing contracts, etc. are also something that you may find are simply NOT used and/or refused. Insist on it, and the craftsman will quickly refer you to ...good ol' Hank down the road.... who also does work...rescuing cars from the crusher and "fixin' 'em" for re-sale....to out of town buyers.

Get involved in the car clubs in your area. Find out who they refer people to. Stop by and say hello...allow the guy to show off his work and you may find someone that you can work with, and most importantly get a satisfactory job out of.

FWIW

E

[xray]

I second Enrique.

Wow. You actually tried to hold a bodyman to his word on a completion date? Wow. It's either ballsy or uninformed. Please don't be offended, because I (like you) expect to be held to my deadlines and so therefore expect the same of others. Sad to say, but it's just not true with body repair, and in general automotive repair industry.. If someone gives me an estimate of a due date, I usually double it and get upset when it goes a couple weeks past that.

I just dropped off my car at a bodyshop two weeks ago. I stop by weekly or so just to chat, say "Hi," drop off some doughnuts in a not-so-subtle way to say that I'm expecting to see some progress on the car. When there isn't, I politely ask if there's anything I can do to help (parts, etc.), and then listen to an update on all the current bodyshop projects.

While I'm paying (in my mind) big $$$ for the work (around 10k), it's clear that he has a client base of steady cars (usually pre-owned car dealers) that he depends on for steady income. When there's down time he gets to mine. I understand that I am a "once in a while" customer, and his dealers are "repeat cutomers," so I know that I am not his #1 priority when it comes to keeping his business afloat. BUT, because he knows I got his shop referred to me through my local car club (Triangle Z Club, Tarheel Sports Car Club, etc.) and that if he treats me well, I will be a source of referrals...or so I hope it goes.

I am sorry that your car didn't get done in time. But, one shouldn't rush bodywork. Expect a quality job done right and at a fair price, but it's futile to expect it to be done o a certain time schedule. Unlike Enrique, I would encourage you to find a shop that does only ONE of the characteristics (fast, cheap or correct) well:

CORRECT

I'd pay a premium for correct and fast

Good luck,

Steve

[EScanlon]

Steve: Good of you to give the "first hand" experience. I'm on the other side, people want me to do the work, but either are unwilling to pay me the money or don't want to get involved or don't want to wait, and that's why I don't do body-work for hire.

Maybe I should have pointed out, from the body-man's side, the various combinations of the "Fast, Cheap, Correct; Pick Two" scenario. I'll list them in a different order than listed

FAST & CORRECT: MAJOR $. If you're hoping to bump up in priority past one of the "regulars", add even more MAJOR $.

CHEAP/CORRECT: LONG time...in fact, go buy a CD with the money you allocated for the repair, at least that way you'll get some interest out of it.

FAST/CHEAP: Can you say "Steel Tape" or "Chicken Wire & Bondo Rust Repair"? How about cardboard stuffed behind the fender to minimize the bondo used to hide the hole?

These all sound as negative, but the truth of the matter is that what our car's require isn't available easily, readily and cheaply....period.

E

[roger1357]

And to add to the stories, I dropped off my resto, all-but-painted C4 Corvette. The short story: It disappeared for 16 months, and when it came back, it still wasn't painted. "I need two weeks" was the refrain. It was a correct job, not cheap, and with far more heartache than anyone should suffer. For my '70 Z, I am learning to paint.

[Blue Meanie]

No X-ray, He said because the state of my car he would knock it out in a week. So, with that I budgeted for a month, or so. I was just dissapointed. Just going into Z-withdrawl man!