C210 vs C110 Strut tops

[khughes]

Hi Guys,

i picked up a set of C110 adjustable strut tops out of japan (thanks Miles!), but i found out today, that they do not fit my C210 adjustable struts (apparently they need some major work to make an adaptor to get the top spring seat to fit).

Does anyone know i adjustable C210 strut tops are available anywhere? or should i go down the path of the whiteline adjustable universal tops, or just get my C110 ones modified..

I don't know which way will be cheaper

[JohannD]

Have pictures and sizes?

[sakijo]

Don't you have a C110? What is the problem? Are you swapping out C110 struts for C210 ones? I haven't seen C210 strut tops advertised, but I'm sure they are available . . . . But will they fit the C110?

[aarc240]

Huh?!?

Kent, I'd do some measuring myself.

C110 and C210 both use 130 mm diameter springs and fit either upper seat.

In the normal sedan version the springs are only distinguishable by the slightly larger wire diameter of the C210 (12.8mm vs 12.5mm).

Sure, there is supposed to be a difference in free length (384mm vs 382mm) but I've yet to see ANY that are within 2mm of specified length even new

I have C210 struts with C110 strut tops in a C110, could have used the C210 tops as they also fitted both the spring and the body.

btw, 200B and Bluebird strut tops also fit the strut, spring AND the body of a C110. I haven't researched it but would not be surprised if the part nembers were the same!

I get the feeling either the adjustable strut tops are meant for adjustable coil seat conversion with much smaller diameter springs, the wrong strut tops were supplied inadvertently or someone is about to try emptying your pockets.

[khughes]

From what i believe, the struts are height adjustable C210 struts (they certainly have the bigger caliper mounts), so they are not standard... which may explain why they don't fit the strut tops (i am the first to admit i have no idea about suspension, only a basic understanding of where everything is).

From What Stewart (owner or Stewart Wilkins Motorsports, they certainly seem experienced and genuine) told me, for them to fit, they would need to create some sort of sleeve with a larger and stronger lip.. it sounded a little complicated (and $$$) and given they also found my springs were stuffed, and a shock dead, i am not sure if it was worth getting modified now.

i am assuming that parts 54325,54059 and more importantly 54036 in the following diagram doesn't fit. I checked the part numbers or C210 vs C110 and you are right, the top spring seat is the same part number (54040-21000)

1st diagram is C110, 2nd is C210

As i was never comfortable removing the front struts from my car, i never managed to get a good photo of them, but i do have these...

http://www.project240k.com/gallery/details.php?image_id=293

http://www.project240k.com/gallery/details.php?image_id=302

strut tops are similar to these (but not exact): http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=11786&d=1144234711

as for the shocks and springs, they quoted me $1100 for a set of koni damper adjustable inserts, with a set of springs and lift spacers . apparently (again, i don't fully understand), they need to make up an insert to go in the assembly below the shock to raise it up, unless i want to run the car super low, in which case i can remove this insert (i guess otherwise the strut is too long for the shock?)

It is hard, as the car is a good 1hrs drive away from home, so i can't just pop down to see what they are talking about.

Apparently they hit another issue with the 10" booster out of a DR30 that i asked them to install.. Apparently my car has C210 or R30 power steering and possibly pedal box (from previous owner), and the piston that connects to the pedal box is fouling on some sort of material on the steering shaft (?) he said that it does clear, but they would prefer another 5mm margin for safety, they were stumped and leaving it for a while to think about it while doing the list of other things... this is not working out to be cheap at all

[aarc240]

Bugga!

OK, so what you have is a set of adjustable strut tops for use with standard C110/C210 springs and a set of struts with adjustable lower spring perches and small diameter springs.

As you already have upper spring seats to suit the small springs it sounds like the adjustable tops don't have sufficient strength (very likely not enough material in the middle) to carry those smaller spring seats.

Without replacing the strut tops SWM are correct - the new seats to suit the springs will need a larger outer flange to spread the load right out to where the stock seats would have.

Unless the springs are actually broken they can be re-processed by any good spring manufacturer. Basically they are heated to cherry red, reformed to correct free length, quenched and then tempered. Not very expensive - you should get in with both done for under $100 for the pair.

Koni adjustables are hardly justifiable unless you intend competing with the car. Monroe GT Gas or Pedders Red are a reasonable compromise for a streeter and a hell of a lot cheaper.

Put some time in with some damper catalogues that include dimensions of the cartridges. There are alternatives meant for other vehicles that can be used. Once you know which ones will fit talk to Pedders - they will valve the cartridges to suit your requirements for very little (if they supply the cartridges of course!).

Just as SWM intend, if a cartridge is shorter than the strut case a spacer is used under the cartridge to make up the difference. Doesn't cause a problem and new cartridges from Tokico have been seen with a short stub of tube tack welded to the bottom from the factory. It is only a piece of thick wall steel tube cut to length!

As you have already said you have little idea about suspension, do you really want to spend the extra to get something you won't understand well enough to tune to suit the car, road surface and your driving style? Mind you, that's no criticism of you as I've been messing with these things for nearly forty years and still get it wrong at times!

Why the 10" booster? You will find that the brakes are very hard to modulate so once you get lock-up you won't get it to unlock before hitting the scenery.

I'm using a 9" booster from a 260Z with a 1" master cylinder from a Patrol on 4-spot front calipers and 2-spot rears. A bit hard to push but VERY controllable.

[khughes]

The Koni's were suggested as they have had a lot of good experience.. and later on down the track (as soon as it is finished!).. the car will definately be a track car (no competition at this stage).. hence why i would prefer to get everything adjustable now, so that i can play to get the right settings / have them set up properly, but swap to a street setup fairly easily.. yes not the cheapest option, but i am scared it will handle like a lump of ... well

what do you think are my best options for the strut tops? modify or sell my C110 set and get a universal set (around $450-$600). I have been looking at getting adj. castor rods out of japan too.. but this will have to wait.. along with the rear adjustment mods.

as for the brakes, again, i am going off the advise or SWR, 10" booster and 1" M/C (i picked them up for the cost of a rebuild from a friend). If the booster can't fit, then my fall back would be the std with the 1" M/C.. given that i am using much bigger front and rear disk brakes than the DR30.. i would imagine that the 10" booster would be a logical option?

[khughes]

another question for you.. could you get a set of damper adjustable shocks in the rear? given they are upside down

obviously height adjustment is a little tricky unless you have a hacksaw

[sakijo]

Look into KYB. I've got a set on my car. The front struts are 4 settting adjustable and the rears are 8 setting adjustable. I have them on 1 and 1, the softest setting - street car, you know.

[aarc240]

Disc size doesn't really have much to do with booster size. Booster type and size is dictated by how much pedal pressure can be tolerated and how much feedback ('feel') is desired.

A 10" will be a reasonable starting point, just don't be surprised if you need to change it for better feel/control.

A booster/cylinder combo that is surprisingly popular and effective is a 7" TD Gemini dual diaphragm booster with a 1" LX Torana cylinder. Works real well on 4 wheel discs even with Volvo 4 pots front and rear.

The strut tops you have will likely wind up costing no more than selling and going to something else. Get SWM to make new spring seats - Stewart will know what is needed.

Absolutely nothing wrong with Konis, just a bit more expensive. Equally nothing wrong with KYB, just uncommon in motorsport.

Your rear dampers on a C110 are normal way up and adjustable units are readily available from Koni and others. Easy to adjust too.

What sort of 'track car'? A C110 with an RB25DET isn't going to fit into many classes you can afford to play in!

On top of that a full-on track car is so far from a street car that a second car becomes very attractive in short order.

There are just too many things to change each time.

Just for starters, you will put in competition (non ADR) seat belts, change springs, change sway bars, adjust ride height, adjust the dampers ('shock absorbers'), adjust suspension alignment, change wheels & tyres and tape over headlights.

End of the day reverse the process.

When I got sick of that I bought a well used V8 VC Valiant sedan, stuffed a 360 in it and bought a car trailer. Ah, heaven!

Even now with a C110 that is mild compared to where you are going we run a 260Z 2+2 as our normal street car.

[khughes]

yeah... the C110 is in no way my daily driver.. that is for sure... it is a dedicated weekend / track car.. and as you say, i doubt i will do any serious racing in it.. it will be worth to much to me!

i just need something fun to replace the GT-R i sold a year ago

[JohannD]

Your rear dampers on a C110 are normal way up and adjustable units are readily available from Koni and others. Easy to adjust too.

Are you sure about this? Aren't you mixing with C210?