What is wrong with the 350Z?

[2003z]

My info came from an in depth conversation with the parts manager at the local Nissan dealer who has switched form a 350Z to the S2000 for the reaons given. He is racing in this area competitively.

Will

Doesn't Mike actually race a Cobra?

I've owned several 240zs, a 350z and a G35 coupe. The 350z is one of the best cars for the buck out there, and it looks great too. Yes, the G also looks great, but its still a different car for a different market. Nissan, nor any car company, (lotus not withstanding) will ever bring a pure sports car to market again, so we should just get over it.

[hls30.com]

I hate to weigh in on a thread that's stated title is to find fault with something. ,,,

2.When you try to talk about the 240 and the 350 as though they need to compete with one another you're comparing oranges to apples. ...

Larry

Larry,

I know there are people out there who think the primary thing wrong with a 350Z is that there are people who think there is something seriously wrong with the 350Z. That is why the first word and the last word(well, poll choice) was given to them. I would rather hear the logic and passion:tapemouth of their opinions than not, I posted this poll to get that, I know we have members that own or have owned 350Zs. I expected and hoped they would get involved-the last thing I ever want is a poll with only my choices showing. I am absolutley not of the mindset that when your opinion is important I'll give it to you, and I NEVER ask a question I don't want the answer to. I though post number 5-even with the tongue in cheek, would have made that clear. Now, none of that means in any way I have to agree with any given answer, nor does it preclude me from changing my own.

I have spoken at length to 350Z owners in my local club because I want to gain an understanding of their attraction to the car that I did not get from putting 1,200 miles on a track version-and I will admit your design thread inspired me to post this poll and thread. So far, I still haven't got the "it" of a 350Z.

The biggest issue I have with the 350Z-even more than my perception of ugly-is exactly the point you and Stephen made. Nissan touted how strongly related it was to the 240Z, They spent ungodly sums of money to get the word out there that this 350Z was essentially the modern evolution of the 240Z. The 350Z is a lot of good and great(and even ugly) things, but a modern 240Z it is NOT:disappoin ! In my opinion the 350Z is a accounting and marketing achievement, it is, after all, an in-house G35 Kitcar that has a pipe dream link to the 240Z from the Marketing department

In a nutshell, Nissan lied, and the 240Z and the 350Z ARE as related as apples and oranges.

WIll

[hls30.com]

Doesn't Mike actually race a Cobra?

quote]

He does now...at the time of the conversation he was driving he S2000.

Will

[2003z]

Doesn't Mike actually race a Cobra?

quote]

He does now...at the time of the conversation he was driving he S2000.

Will

thought we were talking about the same friend. Not too many enthusiast parts managers in Savannah!

anyhoo, I have a video from one of the car tv shows that shows on the 350z. they have a part that shows a clay model of a 240, and without the front bumper the 240 and 350 front ends look remarkably the same.

[daddz]

2.When you try to talk about the 240 and the 350 as though they need to compete with one another you're comparing oranges to apples. It was two different times and two different circumstances. I believe that they were both successful relative to what they needed to do under the circumstances that existed.

Larry

Larry,

Just take a look at Chris Bangle's BMW Z4 M Coupe. It is as polarizing as the 350Z but it utilizes a more traditional proportioning similar to the great coupes of the '60's and early '70's. The long hood and cab rearward design ethos have never left the great marques such as Aston Martin, Ferrari, and Jaguar. Nissan is always seeming to swing like a pendulum from good design to bad; anyone remember the F10? The worst design element of the 350Z in my opinion is the taillights. I had to view a picture from above to undertsand the continuity of line from the quarter glass window and the arch that makes up the top of the fender through the door and back through the quarter panel. If I had it to do over again I would probably have chosen the Z4 M Coupe over the 350Z had it been available at the same time as when I purchased the 350Z.

[zedevan]

i resently went and heard chris bangle speak, it was very interesting. anyway he said how the most important thing of the 6series was its long bonnet to give it the timeless sports car look, and he seemed to imply that it was a hard thing to do? there was an m4? (m z4) coupe sitting there and it is pretty dam sexy, however i think there is something unnatural looking about its roof line

he also said that asian cars should have their own identity instead of making asian european cars etc

[hls30.com]

thought we were talking about the same friend. Not too many enthusiast parts managers in Savannah!

anyhoo, I have a video from one of the car tv shows that shows on the 350z. they have a part that shows a clay model of a 240, and without the front bumper the 240 and 350 front ends look remarkably the same.

Not with ony one dealership and one manager(one Mike?)!

I am having a hard time seeing a bumperless 240Z front end resembling the 350Z front end because of the early long hood and later short hood as pointed out by Daddz-any chance of a captured post.

Will

[240ZMan]

With regard to the comments about preferring the long hood, short rear deck of the BMW Z4, I personally agree, and find those proportions on the 240 a big part of it's visual charm.

But, I'm pretty sure that when Nissan began the 350Z design, they were not a financially viable company (loosing money big time) and so the platform had to also be used for 4 door cars, including the G sedan. I suspect that this requirement prevented the long hood look, as well as contributed to the extra weight (they couldn't optimize the platform for just a 2 door since it also had to support a 4 door).

Like others said earlier, you have to look at the 350Z in the context of the time period in which it was designed.

[dscott@shouri]

Amuse 350Z vs Amuse S2000

Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSu2k5z2ewQ

[jmark]

Larry,

Just take a look at Chris Bangle's BMW Z4 M Coupe. It is as polarizing as the 350Z but it utilizes a more traditional proportioning similar to the great coupes of the '60's and early '70's. The long hood and cab rearward design ethos have never left the great marques such as Aston Martin, Ferrari, and Jaguar. Nissan is always seeming to swing like a pendulum from good design to bad; anyone remember the F10? The worst design element of the 350Z in my opinion is the taillights. I had to view a picture from above to undertsand the continuity of line from the quarter glass window and the arch that makes up the top of the fender through the door and back through the quarter panel. If I had it to do over again I would probably have chosen the Z4 M Coupe over the 350Z had it been available at the same time as when I purchased the 350Z.

You are spot on. I live in Greer SC home of the BMW Plant and the Z4M Coupe reminds me of the 240Z alot. I don't like the front headlights but other than that it the Z4M Coupe rocks.

[LEB]

OK,

In the interest of making a situation that is easier to understand I’ll ramble a bit about the new Z program.

The first assignment was to do a retro Z. After all in order to do a retro version you need to also have something in your past that warrants doing a retro version of. Please don’t think that retro makes it easier. It’s very difficult. Not a guarantee anyplace, look at the T-bird. The package that we were given was a 240 SX and It didn’t have the perfect proportions for the original Z but that’s not unusual in the automotive design world. I did get to compete in the 1/4 scale phase and have personal experience in the difficulty involved.

Anyway after going through a complete 1/4 scale and 1/1 design process a show car was made and shown to the world. Even during the design process there was some leakage to the car rags.

The next thing we knew we were starting over with a new package. This platform was new and more contemporary. At the time I didn’t know that it would be the same as the G35 (being done in Japan) but with 70mm less wheelbase. I wasn’t as involved in that program and thus don’t know the details as well.

The original chosen design that was selected belonged to my friend Ajay Paschal. It scared me but that‘s a good thing. I’ve found that new stuff that doesn't scare me will fade into the background quickly. That’s OK for some bread and butter cars but for the new Z we needed a winner. I wanted to retire from a company that wasn’t going bankrupt (if you know what I mean).

I know that the folks at Nissan promised one thing and seemed to delivered another. Even when they pushed the limits of retro beyond easy recognition it’s possible for me to see how they would still claim that the new car was inspired by the original Z because it really was. It’s just that you would have to have been there to understand it’s rather unusual development process.

My involvement with the marketing folks often leads me to think that there is a huge unrecognized difference between marketing and design . I suspect that the general public bought it with no problem. It’s just you Z folks that didn’t buy the slight of hand that was used to get the new Z to market.

I have a lot of respect for companies that are able to get really good stuff through their systems and on the road. It’s a high stakes game and takes skill, good management, guts and luck.

Larry

[240ZMan]

Larry, did the need to use the underlying platform for other vehicles, including 4 doors, impact your design process? It seems like it would, which might explain why the 350Z doesn't have the long hood, short deck like the 240. Or was there some other reason?