Buyer Beware!

[GregP]

Dean,

It says a lot for you removing the car from Ebay even though you new you could make a profit. I have bought sold a few cars on Ebay over the years and have found that for the most part people don't outright lie but just omit details that will hurt the price. I have found that using a local club member to inspect a car usually will get you the best description. Sounds like you still got a pretty good deal. Post some photos of your restoration progress if you get a chance.

Greg

[sblake01]

I have bought sold a few cars on Ebay over the years and have found that for the most part people don't outright lie but just omit details that will hurt the price.

What's the difference? If one know's the truth and omits it for the purpose of potentially achieving a higher selling price, how does that differ from a lie? Dean's honesty is refreshing in this day and age especially considering he wasn't shown the same honesty by the seller.

[Montezuma]

I have been thinking about this for sometime, since I got a car via Ebay for $6K that I am not very happy with at all, to be honest I kinda of hate the car, but I could never tell my wife....of course. Mine is in about the same condition as troubledZ' car. It had only 98K miles, perfect dash and looked GREAT in the pictures. I even had family look at it but they are not Z car people so they thought it looked great. When I got it I had to dump almost $2K in it just to be comfortable and I am still not happy. I find new rust everywhere. Not sure if my seller was a liar or just in denial.

I have an idea of a way to avoid these problems in the future. If you see a car on ebay and you want it, don't buy it unless someone from this board checks it out for you or someone you know and trust that lives in the area of the car. I also think that there is a great business idea in all this. Cars listed on ebay could be taken to an inspection station and be certified by someone who is an expert in detecting rust and verifying the condition of the running gear and age and wear of engine parts. If there was certification process I would only buy "certified" cars. Just shooting out ideas "brain storming".

Every day I look at my ebay buy.....I get bummed out.

[geezer]

Hi - I never used it but I thought they did offer, or link you to some kind of certification process. I have read many posts here where members have helped out by looking a car over, if they lived close by.

[geezer]

Montezuma - Your post actualy relates to troubledz's thread very well. troubledz's purchase and subsequent post was the reason for me registering as a member. I was a lurker for years. I registered in order to contact him and offer my assistance. He was contemplating driving it a long distance. I had the ability to supply parts or any tools needed quickly if needed, if he ran into any trouble along the way. Depending on what route he took, I was along the way. Even Carl Beck offered to look it over. Now thats something I would pay big money for. The car seems to be shaping up nicely, just takes time and dedication.

[troubledz]

Montezuma, sorry to hear about your unfortunate purchase. but i think you nailed it when talking about the PO "Not sure if my seller was a liar or just in denial".

I guess i just have higher standards then the PO, That being said i think it is a great idea that we get someone in this site in the area where the car is to look it over and give a true evaluation.. being all Z owners - we should know what to look for ie: troubled spots.

As Geezer said: when i posted on here that i was thinking about driving the car for over 1200 miles right away the response i got from everyone was overwhelming with if you run into any problems give me a call.. Thats what this site is so great for.. HELP!!!

So if there is anyone looking to buy a Z in this area send me a PM and i can at least give you a report on the body condition...

Resto is coming along I now have the Z in a two part polyester filler.. and it is looking great.. just giving a final fit.. make sure parts line up perfect then strip it down and start blocking and painting.. Will post some more pics soon..

Cheers Dean

[daddz]

Dean and others,

That is a shame about your ebay experience(s). I have frequently been on the buying side of the fence and have regretted a few purchases over the years. I always find that I have quite a bit of work to do to bring the Z or ZX in question back to complete operating condition. For some reason this usually equates to approximately $1500 to $2000 depending on how much deferred maintenance was uncovered.

On the other hand I was the seller this past year of four different vehicles (three '78 280Z's and an '87 Supra) and some of them were definitely not in the greatest shape but I set out to be as honest as possible and threw in some extras to sweeten the pot. In a perfect world I would have kept them all as I seem to drift toward the neglected orphan Z cars.

The problem with Z cars is that they were fairly affordable to begin with which means they were driven alot more than equivalent cars from the same time period. In addition as they depreciated the subsequent 2nd, 3rd owners either modified the cars or used substandard replacement parts and or methods which means that reconditioning one of these cars becomes and expensive proposition for the enthusiastic owner. Couple that with rising values and you have a bunch of fairly dishonest people who want nothing more than to unload their Z car for a hefty sum of money.

One would hope that as the old car hobby continues to draw more people that this would cease to exist.

[ktm]

Montezuma, you need to get over it my friend. You spent the money and there is nothing you can really do about it now. Enjoy the car now and chalk up your experience to a lesson in life.

I bought a car from a kid in San Diego for $4000. The car's interior was in good shape and mechanically it was very strong. Enthusiasm clouded my purchase as there were many items that needed replacing and the Ziebart undercoating covered some rust. I have sunk over $3000 into the car already and I just picked up an L28ET that I am going to drop in next fall.

Still, now that the car is back down on the ground and I am able to drive it, I love it despite my earlier reservations.

[DeesZ]

I feel badly for those of us that have been burned, too. eBay is simply a marketplace for exchanging goods, providing a cyber-venue for buyers and sellers to meet and make exchanges. Patience and caution are your best friends when it comes to spending money on eBay; for that matter, anywhere.

I bought my '72 through eBay. It was far from the first one that I considered for a purchase. In every case I made contact with the sellers. Their "responses" can tell you a lot about them and their goods. No response = no bids. Actually "speaking" with them can tell you a lot as well. A seller playing dumb, or too polished and practiced, should throw up caution signs. You can tell a lot about how "genuine" someone is by having a conversation with them. If I'm spending several K, I will speak with them at length first. During those conversations some ground rules can be laid, too. Bottom line is if I can't see it, touch it, poke & probe it with magnets, etc., I am buying a pig-in-a-poke (southern expression for something assumed to be as represented by the seller but you haven't actually seen it..... you are going on trust / faith / hope). There is where we can all get into quicksand. I'm pretty trusting, making an assumption that most other people are as honest as I wish to be. This is not the case. There is the old saying "caveat emptor", Latin for "let the buyer beware". There is no substitute for a hands-on inspection by someone who knows what they are looking at and what to look for. The network we have here is strong and wide; there is great potential for us to serve each other when it comes to buying a car that is too far away to put your own hands on personally. I'm in south-central Pennsylvania.... very few for sale around here in the last decade, but if you find one, I'll be pleased to try to arrange a look-see on your behalf.

For my purchase I resolved to wait until there was one available that suited me that was within a 4-hour drive so that I could go see it. A few hours on the road was well worth the time spent. If I can be of assistance, let me know. Is it worth starting a "register" of names and locations of people willing to take a few steps to help out a club member who is a potential buyer? Does anyone have a list of inspection points available that we could agree upon as a "standard" of sorts? I think there is some potential here for us to serve each other. Thanks - Sorry for the long winded post.

[lonetreesteve]

"Caveat emptor" or "Let the buyer beware" also applies to body shops and mechanics once you purchase a Z and need to have work done. As we all know, there are a lot of slime bags out there that will take advantage of you if you're not careful. This hobby isn't an easy one to get started in when you first consider how difficult it is to find a good restoration candidate then to find a reputable mechanic, if you're not too mechanically-inclined (like myself) and/or a good body & paint shop. I think all of us has been burned one way or another at one time, but like KTM said, you have to "chalk up your experience to a lesson in life".

[troubledz]

Just a quick note that I now have my Z on the road.. Took it for a spin this eve..Wow this car is fun.. just a few bugs to work out - trouble with the fuel pump, and a few wiring issues, but Wow!

Here is a few pics..

Cheers, Dean

[Ramses]

Nice job on the resto. Any more pics online anywhere?