What 240Z Design elements would you like to see in the new Z?

[TomoHawk]

Be carefull you guys don't turn the new Z into a tinfoil machine! :surprised

Be realisatic in your weight goal, but remember you have safety standards and emmissions stuff to add a little weight.

What's your price goal? iIf you do a bunch of things to lighten ( GRP/CF/kevlar floorpan, wheelwells, hood, doors, roof, hatch) you could be adding thousands to the price. Who'd be able to afford one then?

[cremmenga]

I want the classic look, all the same curves, but only smoothed out with a modern look. Similar to what I'm trying to do. Oh and say about a 450hp engine, would be nice too!!

[Ron Carter]

I am thinking that something like a Aston Martin DB9S with some slightly different styling que's would be the way to go. The current Aston looks like an upgraded 240 /280Z platform.

Install a nice reliable fast Nissan powerplant with plenty of torque and your set.

When the first 240Z's came out they looked like the Ferrari 250GT's why can't Nissan step up with a car that looks like a supercar, instead of a frog.

[hls30.com]

...

When the first 240Z's came out they looked like the Ferrari 250GT's why can't Nissan step up with a car that looks like a supercar, instead of a frog.

Come on Ron, Let's be fair! What it lacks in looks it has in great performance-at least call it a Super(ugly)Frog!

Seriously, while I do appreciate and understand more if its design elements now, I find it no more attractive as a whole:disappoin .

Will

I would like to see the new Z as a wider car with the same length and proportions and placements front to rear. From the side it would be hard to tell it wasn't a 240Z with larger wheels when you were squinting, From the front and the rear, it would have familiar points, but look different.

it would be the proverbial lady on the street and the fastest babe on the track. It would have the looks that the performance delivered.

Carl, thanks for the try-you can lead a carmaker to a future legend, but you can't make them build it.

Will

[TomoHawk]

Will-

That's a new definition to Fugly: Frog-ugly

[Ron Carter]

Agreed Will, the current Z has great performance. So it is the "prince" that would be a frog...

[hls30.com]

Is that akin to calling it a froggytale?

Will

[Carl Beck]

Carl,

Love that design that was proposed to Nissan in 98. Did you get any feedback at all....Is there anyway to forward these thoughts again...

Hi Max (everyone)

Thanks - to look at the future, I'll review a bit of the past....

I made that presentation to Mr. Kitahora and Mr. Katayama in Dearborn, the week that Mr. K was inducted into the Automobile Hall of Fame. At that time Mr. Kitahora was the Senior VP of Marketing and Sales in the US.

Because Mr. Katayama had personally invited me to the induction ceremony I was in Dearborn the day before, the day of and the day after the event. I had an opportunity to trap Mr. Kitahora in a more or less private and somewhat captive audience (arranged by Mr. K after he reviewed the presentation with me the day before.)

I believe that Mr. K fully understood the "concept" in both an overall and detailed manor. Mr. K supported it very enthusiastically. I'm not so sure that Mr. Kitahora really grasp the concept in it's entirety. I supplied them both with copies of the presentation along with notes for each slide.

While I was kept fairly well informed over the following years - I actually did not receive any formal feedback from Nissan as to the viability of the design... or any of its component parts. As the situation unfolded with the Renault take-over, I knew the whole idea of a clean slate design for the new Z was dead.

As I said earlier, I did see a couple of the ideas presented, show up in the 350-Z... but only minor one's that could have come from anywhere..

I still believe that the next generation Z has to offer far more than the competition in terms of real Customer Value. Something that can not be purchased everywhere else...

As for going forward again.... At the present time Mr. K is still our best hope for a "real" Z Car again. I do try to keep in touch with some of the friendlier faces in Nissan and if the opportunity presents itself again - I would respectfully suggest that Peter Brock should be one of their design consultants on that project.

Faced with supporting and promoting the 350Z, or having no Z Car return to the US it is my belief that Mr. K reluctantly chose the former. I on the other hand, took purely a "Customers" perspective and broadly and publicly dis'ed the badge engineering as being nothing short of re-inventing the AM-X. Needless to say that didn't win me any political friends in Nissan Corporate... I also believe that it is Nissan that needs Customers as friends and supporters - not the other way around.

There were and still are voices in the Z Car Community that woo Corporate favor by telling the people at Nissan what they want to hear, rather than telling them what they need to hear. Many of us that have worked in major corporations know how that game is played... but in the end it does neither the corporation nor its customers any real good, and indeed usually leads to long term harm.

36 years is a long time to wait for the second coming.... but for all the right elements to fall in place again it just might be another 36 years at Nissan.

In the meantime - lets all keep our old Z's alive and well as we wait for the return of DATSUN.

FWIW,

Carl B.

[MAX]

Thanks Carl.....Great thoughts and, yes, let's all keep the issue alive and keep the faith.....

[hls30.com]

I knew Nissans version of a visionary was a spin doctor...

Carl, maybe if you had charged them $10million they would have seen the value of what you gave them. Some companies are too trusting that you get what you pay for.

Will

The value of a "yes" man always proves the value of diversity within the advertised culture within corporation. Some paople are equal, and some peolpe advertise that otheres are...

Will

[TomoHawk]

What Will said---

In a country where people put value on things solely based on the price of the item (for example, a $5000 home A/V system, or my $2500 bicycle) you shoulda charged them a bundle. They might pay more attention to somebody's million-dollar opinion, as compared to a $100 one...

[Steve Parmley]

Let Nissan brass ride around in a clean 240Z for a day and see how many looks and thumbs up they get. Then try hiring the Mustang designer to give it a shot at updating the good looks of the 240Z. He cleaned up the old design while keeping to its core soul. It's one of the few retro-revivals I have liked. Oh, and let a 6'4" old guy fit in it.