70 - 73 240Z Tail Light Chrome Bezels

[JLPurcell]

Why would Koito sell their original tooling, or even consider lending it to somebody in the USA? I don't understand this line of thinking. They don't owe anything to anybody..............

Thanks for the insight into this subject. My line of thinking is that suggested by the owner of American Classic Restoration. He has had luck with this when dealing with American manufacturing.

I am an original Z owner and lover but have not spent my time over the years dealing with the ins and outs of such things. Just a loving owner. That’s why I love this site, members have either done the research or have intimate knowledge of the workings of such things allowing them to get answers. Carl is one such person and I hope he can offer some ideas on this subject.

In my line of work if you don’t try people die. So I am always open to knowledgeable suggestions and believe that there is no stupid question.

[HS30-H]

That’s why I love this site, members have either done the research or have intimate knowledge of the workings of such things allowing them to get answers. Carl is one such person and I hope he can offer some ideas on this subject.

Well, first of all I'm not sure which 'Carl' you are referring to. But might I suggest that a better bet - somebody with a grasp of the way that Japanese industry works, and with the language skills and social graces that the culture requires - might be our fellow member Katsuhiko 'Kats' Endo. Or how about putting the idea to our fellow member - also Japanese - who has just started a company called 'Datsun Spirit' and is planning on reproducing certain parts that are NLA?

If I sound as though I'm pouring scorn on your idea regarding the original moulds then I apologise, but it did make me wonder what the point of it was? The part in question could be reproduced by reverse-engineering an original component, and I'm taking an educated guess that the tooling could be produced for little more than the cost of shipping, handling and duties for that original tooling ( should it ever be released by Koito - which is 'pie in the sky' anyway ) to be sent from Japan. All things considered, these trim pieces are not the most complicated items on the car, are they? Not like a complete rear lamp assembly or anything..........

In my experience ( having sourced a few rare or No Longer Available parts from Japan over the years ) you will possibly find that people will expect these re-pop parts to cost them peanuts. That's the culture with a lot of people in this 'scene'. Watch them take the p*ss out of anything rare or interesting that turns up for a high price on eBay now and then. Its a herd mentality that keeps businesses from tooling-up to make good repro parts for these cars in my opinion, and leaves us with second-rate quality junk that is made in the third world.

In my line of work if you don’t try people die. So I am always open to knowledgeable suggestions and believe that there is no stupid question.

Well, hats off to you for having such a responsible and important job. My line of work is not quite a life or death situation, so maybe I have a different mindset?

Good luck

[JLPurcell]

In my experience ( having sourced a few rare or No Longer Available parts from Japan over the years ) you will possibly find that people will expect these re-pop parts to cost them peanuts. That's the culture with a lot of people in this 'scene'. Watch them take the p*ss out of anything rare or interesting that turns up for a high price on eBay now and then. Its a herd mentality that keeps businesses from tooling-up to make good repro parts for these cars in my opinion, and leaves us with second-rate quality junk that is made in the third world.)

Thanks again for the input. It seems that I should continue to worry about my own needs and use the bezels I have restored while looking for a NOS set for my car.

If nothing else has come of this thread I hope that those who were looking for a reasonable plastic re-chrome shop will find it in the shared link to American Classic Restoration. Keep in mind that the quality of the re-chrome is directly related to the condition of the plastic part.

[hls30.com]

First don't let my experience dissuade anyone from trying to get this done. The parts are more important that the who.

About two years after the factory restration program was cancelled, I contacted Nissan USA about getting the molds to a bunch of NLA plastic parts. I used phone calls, registered mail, Western Union, and a finally, a personal visit to the USA Headquarters. The non-personal contacts were met with polite letters of acknowledgement and reciept that promised further action(evidently, filing my request in a dumpster)

When I went to the Nissan USA Headquarters, these are the answers I got.

"Our corporate tax structure precludes us from selling the tooling to parts we throw away for the same reason." I asked: "Can I find out where and when the molds would be thrown away." That was met like a poke in the eye.

Another variant was who is going to pay the people to find the molds(theare are evidently a good many of them for every molded part other than the very early series one variants) box them up, arrange shipping, and what are you going to do about reproducing antiquated industrial machinery to run them in.

I answered I could pay for the locating, crating and shipping, and the obtaining the necessary equipment would be my worry, or I could pay someone for access to the location where they are stored, pay a Nissan appointed, vendor approved, babysitter(for me in their storage location), and come do it myself. Obviously they were looking for admitted defeat, not more options from me.

These experiences were gathered at the Nissan USA, headquarters, from a male talking head who started off with a deer in headlights look to my questions and went to smug defiance with his answers. He enjoyed telling me no! His answers were fed to him via telephone. Because of the receptionist, I could not get around this guy by going through the front door, so I staked out the parking area and asked people who to ask as they left the building-no results there either. Suprisingly, I was not asked to leave-but then I asked politely accepted what ever answer and went to the next person.

I believe Alan is right, there could be success in working the Japanese headquarters(or the right guy at the storage facilities), maybe with support from Mr. K, or some of the other long time Nissan employees/Z enthusiasts. Maybe if we offered to clear a warehouse at no charge-Carlos has storage realestate that is non-productive, this way he could reclaim it at no cost to the company.

I know there is another member trying to accomplish the same thing. I told him I had tried before, and he absolutely has some serious advantages that I did not. He frequents the forums, and I will let him chime in if he wants to share his progress

Will

[JLPurcell]

Jerry,

There is a guy, web site is www.zeddsaver.com, who, the last time I talked with him, said he was refurbishing tail lights. He has a fairly extensive ability to acquire NOS parts, and may be a good contact for you. His name is Norm Murphy, located in Canada and is very knowledgeable.

Also, it is rare, but some platers can do actual chrome on plastic, not vaccum plating.

Hope this helps.

Dan

Dan, Norm said he would have them in January 07. Price is $220 pair + ship prepaid.

Jerry

[Arne]

Dan, Norm said he would have them in January 07. Price is $220 pair + ship prepaid.

Jerry

Jerry, is that price just for a pair of the chrome trim parts? If so, it is more than I would have hoped, but still within a realistic realm. Take a pair of these trim parts for around $250 delivered, and a pair of repro lenses from Too Intense or MSA for around $300 shipped, and you could have a pair of completely refurbished tail lights for $550 and some labor. And considering the prices that NOS lights have been reaching that doesn't sound all that bad.

Of course, I've yet to hear from anyone who has physically seen and touched those repro lenses, so I can't say for certain that they look good enough to pass muster. Anyone out there seen them yet?

[JLPurcell]

In my experience ( having sourced a few rare or No Longer Available parts from Japan over the years ) you will possibly find that people will expect these re-pop parts to cost them peanuts. That's the culture with a lot of people in this 'scene'. Watch them take the p*ss out of anything rare or interesting that turns up for a high price on eBay now and then. Its a herd mentality that keeps businesses from tooling-up to make good repro parts for these cars in my opinion, and leaves us with second-rate quality junk that is made in the third world.

I believe that if we want to have the parts we need for our projects we have to realize the limited market for such parts. That is going to equate to very expensive NOS or GOOD reproduction parts. The key being good reproductions hopefully. At first the price shocked me but after thinking of what I have spent trying to restore a pair it is within reason. But once again that is if they are quality parts. I would guess with Norms reputation he will not offer them if they are not up to standards.

[BRE-240Z]

I believe that if we want to have the parts we need for our projects we have to realize the limited market for such parts. That is going to equate to very expensive NOS or GOOD reproduction parts. The key being good reproductions hopefully. At first the price shocked me but after thinking of what I have spent trying to restore a pair it is within reason.

I agree with this one hundred percent. There is no value in discouraging someone who is trying to create good parts for our cars. Even if it's available at a high price, at least it will be available!

This 'look at what he wants for those parts' finger-pointing is not restricted to our community, because I've seen it on other car forums as well. It is a fact that there is a significant cost in tooling up to create these parts, and that cost has to be borne initially by the people who are buying the items. If it's a small run of parts (which it almost certainly would be, given the size of our community), the price is going to be higher.

If the parts are good, I will buy them.

[Arne]

Yup, and we also need to keep in mind how important any given repro part might be. For those of us who want to keep our cars looking as stock and complete as possible, the tail light trim is very important. Sure, it'd be nice if they could be sold for less, but as has been pointed out, tooling up for a small run of parts like this is terribly expensive. The fact is that we need to be very grateful that Norm has taken on the job of recreating these parts. While my red car doesn't need them now, it may later, and I'll likely buy a pair once they are available to have if and when. Because they may not be available forever.

[EScanlon]

Side Story:

20 years ago, in the Air Force, working as liaison between Supply and Purchasing (small parts and special orders), we received a request for a curtain rod. A simple curved (although to a specific shape) piece of metal to accept drape hooks with rollers.

This was the rod that held up the flash curtain on a B-52, and due to the manner in which the B-52's were built in the late 50's, this specific shape of curtain rod applied to only ONE aircraft....the one I was ordering for.

After exhausting the "normal" avenues of procurement, we finally contacted a curtain rod manufacturer that was willing to give a quote, all others had politely excused themselves from bidding on the job.

The quote came in for One Curtain Rod.....at $5,000. That is Five THOUSAND dollars.

I've had people jump in right away pointing out how this is another example of government and military waste, and when we originally received the quote, we requested justification from the manufacturer (per Fed. guidelines).

The justification for the quote read simply... One hour to shut down, clean and set up for run. Run piece, and another hour to shut down clean and return to production....lost production incurred: 5,000 units valued at $1 each.

The manufacturer was willing to give us the piece for free, as long as we reimbursed him for the lost production.

This is the case with many of the parts we're hunting for. The market for them is such that the "DEMAND" may seem to be high, but the amount we're willing to pay for them hasn't yet reached the point at which a manufacturer is willing to invest in and hope to recoup that investment. And in a market where it is not only a closed market (it's not growing), but is actually diminishing day by day (cars being disposed of), the perceived "demand" by manufacturer's is actually much less.

FWIW

E