what is the TRUE definition of "Series 1"

[george71z]

I must have a 'mutt'. My 2/71 build date Z has the vented C-pillars with metal Z emblems, but the hatch has vertical defroster elements and vents. There was no evidence of an accident that would preclude hatch replacement. The lighter is just above the ashtray and the steering wheel has holes in the spokes. It has the 2 slot plate on the console for the choke and throttle, but only came with the choke lever. I feel that Nissan used up parts that were on hand as the production changes were implemented.

[hls30.com]

...I feel that Nissan used up parts that were on hand as the production changes were implemented.

You and all the rest of us!

Will

[Arne]

I must have a 'mutt'. My 2/71 build date Z has the vented C-pillars with metal Z emblems, but the hatch has vertical defroster elements and vents. There was no evidence of an accident that would preclude hatch replacement. The lighter is just above the ashtray and the steering wheel has holes in the spokes. It has the 2 slot plate on the console for the choke and throttle, but only came with the choke lever. I feel that Nissan used up parts that were on hand as the production changes were implemented.

The only thing out of place for a 2/71 car in your list is vents in the hatch. All the rest you describe would be correct for a "late '71" car.

[moonpup]

What about the dash differences, including the speedometer and oil pressure gages?

I don't think they stayed through out the series, or did they?

[dogma420]

Arne--I take offense! (just kidding!) My 72 240 is a 10/71, and just about everything on it is Series 2, but I must call it Series 3, because of the hubcaps and the diff being pushed back, and the new console....I think in the transitional cars (10/71 being the new model year of 1972) I think the cars right at the transition could have mixed/older parts if available on the car. the mutt as was mentioned.

Always thought the 72/73 once changed, didn't have much to be 'improved' because Nissan did all the improvements for 72 model year (and this is before the emission and bumper shocks of 73)...so I've always justified having a 72 by saying that it's the best 240 to have, other than a low vin 70, that model being better because of possible value being higher. A 72 has most of the 'defects' worked out that were found in the first 2 years....although I would love to have the defects of a low vin 70.

the seat belts I got from you by the way are working great, thx.

Geezer--

Technically, a 10/70 car is actually the first month of the model year for Nissan at the time, so your car is a 71. It was registered a 70 because DMVs didn't much care about model years, hence why some 240's are registered as 69 model years (the very early 240s).

Bpilati--

I'm in the process of repainting the defroster lines. Mine doesn't work because there's a break in the lines, so it can't complete the circuit. You can see metal missing in 2 of the lines in one portion. Essentially you have to tape up the whole window and paint with metallic conductive paint. I bought mine here: http://www.semsupplies.com/Silver%20paint.html

well, you don't have to paint the entire defroster grid, just the parts that are missing, but just to make it look good and ensure I don't have to do it ever again, i'm painting the entire grid and then taking it to the tint shop before I put it back in with a fresh gasket.

[geezer]

Dogma - I only stated the build date which can be pinpointed almost to the day, by comparing the VIN with several 09/70-10/70 cars that have survived to this day. Along with sold/titled date in 1970, it only updates the data of Carl's "Production Changes article. I have collected and restored Mopars for more than 40 years and always loved the early Z's and bought this one on impulse. I had the same mindset as Arne and simply wanted an early Z for the same reasons. I could care less if it's a series 1,2,3,4 or whatever. I only refer to it as a series 1 because that seemed to be the general consensus. Thanks for the tip on restoring the heat grids on the B/Glass. I've got a few that need to be done.

[geezer]

Dogma - I only stated the build date which can be pinpointed almost to the day, by comparing the VIN with several 09/70-10/70 cars that have survived to this day. Along with sold/titled date in 1970, it only updates the data of Carl's "Production Changes article. I have collected and restored Mopars for more than 40 years and always loved the early Z's and bought this one on impulse. I had the same mindset as Arne and simply wanted an early Z for the same reasons. I could care less if it's a series 1,2,3,4 or whatever. I only refer to it as a series 1 because that seemed to be the general consensus. Thanks for the tip on restoring the heat grids on the B/Glass. I've got a few that need to be done.

[26th-Z]

Nice conversation and a couple of comments;

This conversation is limited to American import HLS30 versions and we should make it clear that similar variations encompass the home market cars and other exports. In those cases, parts and accessories never included with the American exports are included in this subject. After discovering what the differences are between the various model years we got, it is fun to explore what the rest of the world got. Her Majesty will sport some of those differences. The subject is quite wide.

Zhome has a pretty darn good explanation of our production changes, but indeed, parts were used up in production across the official change date. That seems to be quite common. In the case of my early cars, certain parts were used that were part of the prototype development as well as standard parts from other cars - like the roadster - seat belts and ignition systems, for instance.

The parts themselves changed during their production runs and we see evidence of various manufacturing changes not necessarily associated with a specific model change. The screws holding on the face plate of the speedometer (early, early) are slotted type and not phillips. I own three distictly different series one air cleaners.

So this is a great subject and can get quite trivial. I know Carl is collecting photographs to establish a "concours" reference. Post pictures!

[geezer]

26th-Z - I suspect this subject will be debated and researched for as long as these cars exist. We will never fully know the causes and circumstances of the production of these cars. When the first ones rolled out the door in 1969, I had just begun a new job as a Production Scheduler for Chrysler Corporation. I can tell you first hand about the many, many inconsistancies that occur before, during and after a model change. The Japanese were no different, in fact, they modeled themselves after ever other successful manufacturer. It still happens today, to a much lesser extent and is properly documented. The documentation from Japan in 1969? This is a very interesting topic, with a lot of opinions and less fact.

[240znz]

Hi James:

That's an interesting statement. Can you provide a little more information as to why you believe it is true as it relates to the RHD HS30 cars?

You later Post - that your early car contains all the items that we would consider to be a Series I car, and that it was most likey produced in 1970.

thanks,

Carl B.

Hi Carl and all,

I'm not sure that I understand your question Carl. Series 1, 2 or 3 doesn't relate to the HS30 models at all.

Is there documentation from Nissan to support the idea that they used the term "series" to denote any of the HS30 JDM or RHD models?

Did Nissan USA coin the "series" phrase for HLS30's themselves and are there official Nissan documents (e.g. service manuals) that refer to "series"?

I'm of the understanding there was a clear cut between the so called "series 1 and 2" HLS30's. It is not so clear cut with regard to HS30's in fact there seems to be a almost very frequent change/mod/edit/update whatever you want to call it, in items that were installed in HS30's. I know that VIN 8xx has a hand throttle but solid B pillars. After I saw that, I went over the car looking for differences and found a few minor changes. Nothing major that I could see but none the less, differences.

I'm thinking that maybe Nissan had to jump through hoops to get the "series 1" into the US and that updating any components on it would have meant re-compliance issues (re-testing etc or just miles of paperwork). Maybe it was easier and less expensive to wait until they had many bugs ironed out and then release it for US compliance approval, hence the large differences between the S1 and S2. Thinking out loud now here guys. It would be far easier to test the changes in Japan than in the US after all. Just a thought.

Still learning. Interesting topic.

[hls30.com]

Nice conversation and a couple of comments;

... it is fun to explore what the rest of the world got. Her Majesty will sport some of those differences. The subject is quite wide.

That is the content I am collecting for my website-and getting a good bit of help from members around the world!

Zhome has a pretty darn good explanation of our production changes, but indeed, parts were used up in production across the official change date. That seems to be quite common. In the case of my early cars, certain parts were used that were part of the prototype development as well as standard parts from other cars - like the roadster - seat belts and ignition systems, for instance.!

The gray areas of when something was done do make for no hard and fast answers about what actually belongs in a specific car. I have hunted roadster parts to use in my Zs for years-the roadster guys are hard core, and don't give up on parts.

... I know Carl is collecting photographs to establish a "concours" reference. Post pictures!

I was thinking about this last week, trying to remember where seam sealer was actually used and not used, I went to look at some of the cars I have in storage to see, but I will probably use it in a lot of places Nissan didn't-at least in my examples-who knows if mine was a "last car of a friday", a "first car of Monday", or if the "new guy" was manning the sealer gun/pot that day...

Will

[EScanlon]

Geezer--

Technically, a 10/70 car is actually the first month of the model year for Nissan at the time, so your car is a 71. It was registered a 70 because DMVs didn't much care about model years, hence why some 240's are registered as 69 model years (the very early 240s).

From what I remember on another thread here, this was not the case.

The Datsun production at that time went by CALENDAR year and did not take the MODEL year of American manufacturer's into consideration. That is Jan. to Dec. cars were a given year vehicle, which is why you have the 1969 Z's in the mix.

The 1969 registrations and the cross-over registrations are due to both Dealer preference and DMV non-interference. Sometimes a new model year had a price increase...dealers sometimes took advantage of this.

There's a good discussion on Zhome that Carl Beck wrote that helps explain that:

http://zhome.com/History/1970or1971.html

Datsun eventually did change their production shedule for the models based on the Sept-Aug calendar that U.S. manufacturer's use. But in 1970, they were still on the Calendar year.

E