what is the TRUE definition of "Series 1"

[Zs-ondabrain]

Well gentlemen, It seems that my little flick of the match has started a forest fire, of sorts. It's ok though because this is exactly what I was looking for......

I've always had questions as to what part came with what car. Most of you have answered so many questions that I've had for some time. And here's a run down of what my 8/70' has just to help fill in the blanks.....

the obvious parts it had or still has like...

dented steering wheel

vented rear hatch

2 slots in the center column but only has a choke handle and the other slot is empty

pull up to release seat belts (no buttons)

cig. lighter to the right of the fuse box

horizontal slots on the center dash vent

speedo starts at 20

amp gauge is -45 to +45

120 to 250 temp

0 to 140 oil pressure

empty hole above hazard switch

vertical defrost lines on rear window

chrome hangers in the upper quarter window area

black plastic seat belt hangers on the seats

It had the radio in it when I got the car but I think it was AM/FM

did I miss anything?

Dave.

[deadflo]

Has any low vin number owner noticed this one?

I once met a fellow with a 700 serial number car, manufacture date 1/70. In the very back of the hatch compartment, there were no "access doors" to the tailights.

My series one car, and every other 240 z Ive seen has those little doors you can remove by taking the screws out.

BTW, my car is serial number 20390, manufactured 1/71, it has all the series one attributes listed on Carls site.

Except it has two "stops" on the drivers side door, the passenger side has just one stop position.

I know the 69 Z's are the most rare, but has anyone considered how many series ones were built in January of 1971?

[26th-Z]

The very early cars came with an interior valance without the tail light access holes. The dome light trim in the headliner is not notched for cars equipped with clear hatch glass. As there were no wires to connect to the defroster, the notch for the wire in the plastic cover is not present. The switch plate for the defrosters has a blanking plug in the center console. On and on.... Oh! Great one! Early cars had only one stop on the door spring mechanism. Not two stops like we usually see. It is very rare to find a one stop door hinge. They were weak and wore out easily.

[Marty Rogan]

Has any low vin number owner noticed this one?

I once met a fellow with a 700 serial number car, manufacture date 1/70. In the very back of the hatch compartment, there were no "access doors" to the tailights.

My series one car, and every other 240 z Ive seen has those little doors you can remove by taking the screws out.

BTW, my car is serial number 20390, manufactured 1/71, it has all the series one attributes listed on Carls site.

Except it has two "stops" on the drivers side door, the passenger side has just one stop position.

I know the 69 Z's are the most rare, but has anyone considered how many series ones were built in January of 1971?

Actually, my 6/70 Z #5341 with the rare blue interior has the hatch compartment without the access doors. It is a pain when a bulb burns out. I recently acquired a panel from EBay that is blue, with the trap doors. I am thinking of putting that one on for ease of changing bulbs.

My other Z, blt 1/71 is built just like yours, with all the Series 1 attributes.

Marty

[Carl Beck]

Well gentlemen, It seems that my little flick of the match has started a forest fire, of sorts. It's ok though because this is exactly what I was looking for......

I've always had questions as to what part came with what car.

...snipped......

...snipped.....

did I miss anything?

Dave.

Hi Dave (everyone):

I don't think you missed anything, but I'd say that what started out as one question - morphed into a different one.

When I originally wrote the article about the Series I cars being sold and titled as 1969, 1970 and 1971 Model Year Cars.... thus leaving all of us wondering just which car someone had when they said they had a "71"...

The attempt was to define the Series, with the fewest visual clues that could be used to make a "distinction" between them. It was NOT to document all details changes of all parts or components.

Dave originally ask, "what is the TRUE definition of "Series I""

I believe that it is a completely different question to ask, "what are all the fine details that are found on the Series I cars and at what point in time do they appear?"

Looking at the exchange between 240znz and I - it seems possible that the two questions and their associated answers are at least part of the reason we don't understand each others statements or questions, to one another.

Confusing isn't it?

So I would respectfully suggest that we treat the two questions as just that - two questions.

Answer to Question #1 - ie. What Is The Definition of "Series I"?

The definition of a Series I car would be:

*Fresh Air vents in the rear hatch

*240-Z Script on the rear quarter panels

*Knob used to adjust seat back

*140 psi Oil Pressure gauge & Speedo that starts at 20mph

* Plastic Tool Covers behind seats

* Lever release type seat belts

* Steering wheel with pressed indents

Then the definition a Series II car would be:

*Fresh Air vents moved to the Quarter Panel

*Circle Z replaces the 240-Z Script on Quarter Panel

*Lever Controlled flip forward seats

*Push button release on seat belts

*Steering wheel with stamped out holes

Then the definition of a Series III (1972 Model Year) car would be:

*Dash with Cig. Lighter by hazard warning switch

*Redesigned Center Console - with ashtray behind shift lever

* Type B transmission - rear end moved rearward - and rear lower transverse link with "bowed out" area

* 5" steel wheels standard

Then the definition of the Series IV (1973 Model Year) car would be

* 2.5 mph bumpers

* Emissions control Flat Top Carb.'s

* Lighted Center Dash Finisher

* Windshield Wipers with "intermittent" position added

In the above - I'd tried to leave out any items that were common to more than one Series. Also many items that would be hard to see, without getting in the car or under the hood. Remember the goal is to be able to "distinguish" between the Series by looking at them .. not to document every detail.

While the use of Series identifications is needed here in North America to clear up any confusion caused by Nissan and their Authorized Dealers sales and titling procedures - it may not be needed outside the US. Nonetheless, while it may not be necessary to use Series designations outside the US, it does not mean that they can not be applied to 240-Z's out side of North America. (if the definitions above are correct).

So the question to our guests from outside the US is - looking at the definitions above - do your 240-Z's for 1970, 1971, 1972 and 1973 agree with all the basic elements of each Series?

- - - - -- - - - - - Detail Changes - -- a long time goal- --

To Pin Down 100's of detailed changes, that took place over the calender years - we would need confirmation of parts on pure stock, pure original cars and/or technical documentation from Nissan. I'd venture to say that something close to 99.5% of our now 33+ year old cars - have had more than one previous owner, and almost none that haven't had parts changed or replaced. (I say almost none because I do know of a couple cars that are almost - as they left the show-room floor - and only one 78 that is exactly as it left the showroom floor).

Past the above type cars, we'd have to have at least five or ten cars, with the same build dates, that had the same identical original part... This would be a very major undertaking, not to mention the verification effort needed. The Concours Z effort is an attempt to document the fine details of only the Series I cars, and that effort is still a major task with a very long way to go...

At any rate, as everyone said - it's been interesting

FWIW,

Carl B.

[hls30.com]

Carl,

What would be the sure way to tell series one parts were not moved to a later car-the swiss cheese deck devoid of tool bins, or the lack of other structural developments present in later cars-I ask because of a thread from last year where a new member bought a car with incorrect data plates, incorrect paperwork but most of the proper camoflage!

In as much as Her Magesty will have some JDM appointments, my'72 will have some parts from all series, and jdm appointments, and though I would never misrepresent the car, a quick and easy check could certianly avoid confusion when others might not be so forthcoming.

Will

[Carl Beck]

Has any low vin number owner noticed this one?

I once met a fellow with a 700 serial number car, manufacture date 1/70. In the very back of the hatch compartment, there were no "access doors" to the tailights.

My series one car, and every other 240 z Ive seen has those little doors you can remove by taking the screws out.

BTW, my car is serial number 20390, manufactured 1/71, it has all the series one attributes listed on Carls site.

Except it has two "stops" on the drivers side door, the passenger side has just one stop position.

I know the 69 Z's are the most rare, but has anyone considered how many series ones were built in January of 1971?

Hi deadflo (eveyone)

According to Nissan's TSB TS70-42:

The begining serial numbers for cars that got the improved rear finisher with the Access Holes are:

Cars with Black Interiors

HLS30 02830

HLS30 03327 (California models)

Cars with Brown or Blue Interiors

HLS30 03881

HLS30 04364 (California models)

NISSAN USA, Sales and Marketing constantly sought feedback from their Authorized Dealers as to what the end Customers were happy with or not happy with. Thoes reports then went directly back to the Factory. In turn, many items were changed or improved during the calender year. The rear tail light finisher is one example..

Hub caps that flew off - were another

Shocks that leaked before their expected life were another

Front End wonder at high speed was another

Front End Shakes were another

Doors that wouldn't stay firmly in the open position

Weak batteries for both cold and hot climates

Where ever possible all these area's of dissatisfaction were addressed as soon as possible. Some, like the one above were addressed with Technical Service Bulletins - others were simply running production changes, that did not seem to require a TSB... and we may still be missing some of the TSB's..

This process continued though 70 and 71 in earnest, and by 72 most all areas mentioned by the existing customers were taken care of. That is one reason many people, myself included consider the 1972 DATSUN 240-Z's to be the best of breed. 73 would have been even better, had it not been for the Federal Requirements for Saftey and Emissions.

FWIW,

Carl

[Zup]

I happened to notice that there is a definite difference between the front valences on my 10/70 240Z (Jordan's Z Beandip) and my 2/73 240Z.

I apologize for the not so good pix, but I hurriedly shot them today during my lunch break from work. (It's dark out when I get off! :disappoin )

There is a concave flare on the 70 that is not there on the 73.

Does anyone know around what timeframe this small body shape change took place?

I am fascinated by these differences we have observed, and wonder what additional ones might come to light as this discussion proceeds.

Jim D.

"Zup"

[Carl Beck]

Carl,

What would be the sure way to tell series one parts were not moved to a later car-the swiss cheese deck devoid of tool bins, or the lack of other structural developments present in later cars-I ask because of a thread from last year where a new member bought a car with incorrect data plates, incorrect paperwork but most of the proper camoflage!

....snipped.....

Will

Hi Will:

That sounds like a third question, in a way. At least it's a subset of a detailed list of changes and when they were made (yes/no?).

The Series I and Series II cars shared may individual parts, components and sub-systems. So the list your talking about would have to be only the parts that were unique to the Series I cars, which could also not be moved easily. As you point out, that would most likely be components of the uni-body itself.

I think I remember the car you are talking about - and the same was true when we looked at S30-0002 wasn't it? The VIN stamp seemed to be the only part of the body that matched the early cars...

We'd have to give that some serious investigation... because several things even on the Series I body changed during the calender year and then carried over to the Series II cars. There are several things on the first 1000 or so cars, that are unique to them...

Nonetheless a list of "Verification Items" would be very useful. The first thing on that list would be to have all the original data plates, firewall stamping and original engine present and correctly matching.

Tough question... if the "move" was from a Series I body to a Series II body. A little easier to answer if the "move" was from a Series I to a Series III or IV.

FWIW,

Carl

[Carl Beck]

I happened to notice that there is a definite difference between the front valences on my 10/70 240Z (Jordan's Z Beandip) and my 2/73 240Z.

I apologize for the not so good pix, but I hurriedly shot them today during my lunch break from work. (It's dark out when I get off! :disappoin )

There is a concave flare on the 70 that is not there on the 73.

Does anyone know around what timeframe this small body shape change took place?

Hi Zup (everyone) :

I believe that the small body change was preformed by some previous owner.

I note the two holes drilled in the panel on the orange car - most likely they were there to mount a front spoiler, and the lip of that panel was bent out, to clear wider wheels, wheels with the wrong off-set and/or tires.

FWIW,

Carl B.

[EScanlon]

...There is a concave flare on the 70 that is not there on the 73.

Does anyone know around what timeframe this small body shape change took place?...

Jim D.

"Zup"

That concave flare at the bottom of the front quarter valance probably happened when too wide a tire was put on the car and a sharp turn was made, which caused the tire to grab the metal and bend it out.

E

[240znz]

So the question to our guests from outside the US is - looking at the definitions above - do your 240-Z's for 1970, 1971, 1972 and 1973 agree with all the basic elements of each Series?

Carl B.

Gidday all,

Due to the limited amount of 240z's in my town, I can't not comment with accuracy on that point.

Remember that there are very few numbers of 69/70 HS30's when compared to your HLS30's. We are now some 36 years on and therefore even fewer cars available to work out what was and what wasn't. Add the geograhical diversity, plus the language barriers, it all adds up to a near impossible task to collate the information required to "put a finger on it". Point in case is my car with VIN of 352 and a build date of 12/70. That's about a year after the first HS30's rolled off the production line. How many sub 1500 VIN's did New Zealand get? No very many.

I started a thread on a local Z club website in NZ and also in Australia some months ago but it has gone nowhere. Basically, I very much doubt that we could ever get a clear cut answer on this at all. It would be just assumptions.