what is the TRUE definition of "Series 1"

[geezer]

That concave flare at the bottom of the front quarter valance probably happened when too wide a tire was put on the car and a sharp turn was made, which caused the tire to grab the metal and bend it out.

E

That's exactly what happened. I just removed the front valance panel assembly from my 10/70. The drivers side looks identical to the one pictured. I can clearly see the stress cracking of paint on the backside. The passenger side is undamaged. Also, there was a front spoiler mounted. I think a cone got caught up in between the tire and corner valance at one time.

[Carl Beck]

Gidday all,

Due to the limited amount of 240z's in my town, I can't not comment with accuracy on that point.

Remember that there are very few numbers of 69/70 HS30's when compared to your HLS30's. We are now some 36 years on and therefore even fewer cars available to work out what was and what wasn't. Add the geograhical diversity, plus the language barriers, it all adds up to a near impossible task to collate the information required to "put a finger on it". Point in case is my car with VIN of 352 and a build date of 12/70. That's about a year after the first HS30's rolled off the production line. How many sub 1500 VIN's did New Zealand get? No very many.

I started a thread on a local Z club website in NZ and also in Australia some months ago but it has gone nowhere. Basically, I very much doubt that we could ever get a clear cut answer on this at all. It would be just assumptions.

Good point. Sometimes we forget just how rare the "HS" Z Cars are. Of the 240-Z's produced less than 6% were Right Hand Drive Models. With about 3% sold in Japan and some 2.8% exported.

Of the something less than 10,000 HS30's produced in total - I wonder how many of them are still in existence?

FWIW,

Carl B.

[26th-Z]

Carl,

I recall talking with Kats about the reason the hatch vents changed to the B pillar location. From notes during the North American tests, the hatch vents filled up with ice. Matsuo san discussed this with me in Long Beach.

[HS30-H]

Of the 240-Z's produced less than 6% were Right Hand Drive Models. With about 3% sold in Japan and some 2.8% exported.

Of the something less than 10,000 HS30's produced in total - I wonder how many of them are still in existence?

Carl,

I hope you're not quoting figures from the dreaded 'Datsun 280ZX' book again?

I didn't spot any mention of the non-USA/Canada market LHD cars yet in this thread. Might be worth reminding ourselves of the HLS30 models that were exported to countries such as France, Germany, Belgium, Portugal etc etc, and which don't fit all that neatly into the "Series" pigeonholes. Makes things a little more complicated when you start looking at the details of those cars.

And I'm still interested to see an official Nissan Japan-sourced document that mentions "Series" numbers. Anybody got something that mentions the 'S' word specifically?

No mention either of the other S30-series Z models that were contemporary with the '240Z' ( apart from 26th-Z; who will be mentioned in despatches ) - but that's par for the course here I guess.

My mantra: Look at the whole family to fully understand each family member..............

Alan T.

[Arne]

And I'm still interested to see an official Nissan Japan-sourced document that mentions "Series" numbers. Anybody got something that mentions the 'S' word specifically?

Alan,

I don't recall anyone ever claiming that the "Series" terminology was Nissan-approved or used by the factory in any way. I have always understood it to be a way to simplify keeping track of the differences in various ranges of cars. Simply a convenience. Please don't think that any of us here in the US think there ever has been anything "official" about it.

[hls30.com]

Oh no, an "S" word to accompany the "F" word...

Alan, I was leafing through a '72 fairlady parts manual tonight and I noticed an Elephant haulling trunk from right to left-could this be part of a "series" the first being the one on the oil filler cap?

Will

[moonpup]

OPB: HS30-H

I didn't spot any mention of the non-USA/Canada market LHD cars yet in this thread. Might be worth reminding ourselves of the HLS30 models that were exported to countries such as France, Germany, Belgium, Portugal etc etc, and which don't fit all that neatly into the "Series" pigeonholes. Makes things a little more complicated when you start looking at the details of those cars.

com.pre.hend 1: to grasp the nature, significance or meaning of.

If you had done this with the original post you would have understood that this individual was asking for the true definition of the term "Series 1" as it applied to his U.S.A. model 240Z, which happens to be located in Marysville, WA. U.S.A.

OPB: HS30-H

And I'm still interested to see an official Nissan Japan-sourced document that mentions "Series" numbers. Anybody got something that mentions the 'S' word specifically?

"Series 1" is a term used here in the U.S.A. to help define changes through out the years that the U.S.A. 240Z's experienced.

OPB: HS30-H

No mention either of the other S30-series Z models that were contemporary with the '240Z' ( apart from 26th-Z; who will be mentioned in despatches ) - but that's par for the course here I guess.

Why would he, or anyone else for that matter, bring up the differences or similarities of other versions outside the U.S.A. that have no bearing on what he was asking for?

OPB: HS30-H

My mantra: Look at the whole family to fully understand each family member..............

Preacherman... (thought he)saw an opportunity and (mis-)took it!

[26th-Z]

Thank you, Alan. I'm flattered.

Will, the elephant (I believe) represents what I know as The Elephant Oil Company but may be the Indian Oil Company. It is common for automotive manufacturers to endorse a brand of lubrication for their products and that is what I think the elephant is all about. No one has ever confirmed this with me but I think this is some history of the company represented in your parts book and on the oil cap. I believe the "Safari Commemorative" / Ebay jargon is crap and the oil cap is the IOC logo.

Assam Oil Company Ltd. (AOC) was one of the earliest enterprises in the world engaged in exploration and production of oil. Oil was discovered in Digboi in northeastern part of Assam in 1889 by Assam Railway & Trading Company (Originally formed with the object of drilling for oil, later on Assam Oil Company was created to carry out exploration work in Assam and adjoining areas), which established the predecessor company to AOC that was later acquired by Burmah Oil Company Ltd.(BOC), founded 1896, which played a major role in the oil industry in South Asia for about a century through its subsidiaries and in discovery of oil in the middle east though its significant interest in British Petroleum, and also discovered Yenangyaung Oil Field in 1897 and, in 1901, discovered Chauk (Singu) Oil Field, both in Myanmar. Assam Oil Company was taken over by the BOC in 1910, and between 1910 and 1930, the BOC carried out extensive exploration work in Assam and adjoining areas. In 1937, BOC, Royal Dutch/Shell, and Anglo Iranian Oil Co applied for exploration licensee in India and started geophysical survey. Due to World War II, all activities were suspended. Assam Oil is now a division of Indian Oil.

It seems so matter of course to recognize the whole family of Z cars and the first thread makes no distinction which is why I made my initial comments, moonpup. There is no question we are talking about a slang and I believe everyone understands that because we understand the "whole family" concept. Your comments made me wonder.

I plan to visit a RHD Fairlady this weekend and will take this conversation in mind for a further look at the Japanese Z.

[hls30.com]

...

Will, the elephant (I believe) represents what I know as The Elephant Oil Company but may be the Indian Oil Company. It is common for automotive manufacturers to endorse a brand of lubrication for their products and that is what I think the elephant is all about. No one has ever confirmed this with me but I think this is some history of the company represented in your parts book and on the oil cap. I believe the "Safari Commemorative" / Ebay jargon is crap and the oil cap is the IOC logo.

Assam Oil Company Ltd. (AOC) was one of the earliest enterprises in the world engaged in exploration and production of oil. Oil was discovered in Digboi in northeastern part of Assam in 1889 by Assam Railway & Trading Company (Originally formed with the object of drilling for oil, later on Assam Oil Company was created to carry out exploration work in Assam and adjoining areas), which established the predecessor company to AOC that was later acquired by Burmah Oil Company Ltd.(BOC), founded 1896, which played a major role in the oil industry in South Asia for about a century through its subsidiaries and in discovery of oil in the middle east though its significant interest in British Petroleum, and also discovered Yenangyaung Oil Field in 1897 and, in 1901, discovered Chauk (Singu) Oil Field, both in Myanmar. Assam Oil Company was taken over by the BOC in 1910, and between 1910 and 1930, the BOC carried out extensive exploration work in Assam and adjoining areas. In 1937, BOC, Royal Dutch/Shell, and Anglo Iranian Oil Co applied for exploration licensee in India and started geophysical survey. Due to World War II, all activities were suspended. Assam Oil is now a division of Indian Oil.

....

I plan to visit a RHD Fairlady this weekend and will take this conversation in mind for a further look at the Japanese Z.

Chris you have just confirmed a looong conversation I had with my long time Nissan mechanic/best friend. Highly abreviated, He said that A factory(there is the "F" word again...) reccomendation/requirement of a specific product was common place in the sixtys and early seventies, and "Nissan slept with an elephant, and took motor oil to bed" He said that as a Nissan mechanic in the late sixties/early seventies he was encouraged to get his dealership to buy the oil at virtually every training interaction, and one day the encouragement just stopped. He thinks he still has a couple of cans of the oil if I want them. Uh-yes!

On your conjugal visit with the fairlady, please take and post pictures-I am guilty of the same lust...

Will

[HS30-H]

Alan,

I don't recall anyone ever claiming that the "Series" terminology was Nissan-approved or used by the factory in any way. I have always understood it to be a way to simplify keeping track of the differences in various ranges of cars. Simply a convenience. Please don't think that any of us here in the US think there ever has been anything "official" about it.

Arne,

That's not my impression overall. I don't mean just on this thread in particular ( and to give you your due - you yourself have been very specific on this thread ) but overall the implication is that one model is the only one that counts when discussing matters historical. Especially when one of the main people involved in defining the "Series" terms on this very thread also comes out elsewhere with quotes like these:

"Everything about the history of the Z Car seems to prove it was "centered" solely around the USA market."

"The Fairlady Z's are interesting and they allowed Nissan to sell a few more cars in their home market - but your assertion that they were "as important", "as significant" or evenly weighted in the design consideration of the Z - are simply - well - your opinion. However I would suggest that your opinion is not based on any real facts nor sound logic."

"The real story of the Z Car - is carried by the Datsun 240-Z - as specified, as designed, as built for the American market."

Do you see what I mean? To me, that is a very warped perspective.

In my opinion, looking at all contemporary models as a family will help us to understand some of these rolling detail changes / updates / improvements a little better. As an example, I'd say that this is certainly borne out by the questions over the 'clear' hatch glass on this thread - where the fact that both heated and non-heated glass versions were being sold alongside eachother in other markets can help to reveal one of the reasons why the earliest USA market cars came with non-heated hatch glass. If you were looking at JUST the USA market cars empirically, you would come to the ( wrong ) conclusion that the factory did not make heated rear glass until after several hundred cars had been produced - wouldn't you? In fact, the heated rear glass existed - but there was a decision made not to fit them to the first HLS30U models which was soon reversed.

It seems so matter of course to recognize the whole family of Z cars and the first thread makes no distinction which is why I made my initial comments, moonpup. There is no question we are talking about a slang and I believe everyone understands that because we understand the "whole family" concept.

Chris,

To be frank, I think there are only a very few people that are willing to take the wider 'S30 family' view. It seems that it is much easier for people to believe that one market model was the single consideration of the designers and engineers, and that all other market models were forced to follow. We know from talking to the people involved that this is certainly not the case, do we not?

It appears to be anathema to some people. Look at our fellow member 'moonpup' for example.

Alan T.

[kats]

Hello,

I give my big support to Alan(HS30-H),his post told me an important point of view.

My 03/1970 240Z is "Series 1" according to the definition common in the U.S. I think it is a good idea to divide 1,2,3, it makes me think simple. After I learned this, it is useful when I browse Ebay to find parts for my 240Z.

But I should know this term "Series 1,2,3,"is not oriented from NISSAN Official.Nail down the definition seems difficult,if I manage to draw a border line,it is only for my own.Or for the people who use this.The term is not oriented from NISSAN ,so there is no NISSAN official definition which someone can make.Each man can have each definition for the term,it is fun to discuss.But I need to make it clear that it is not official term if I write an article for a car magazine.

At least someone who broadcasts his article on the web/book(including me) especially journalists should do pay attention for this.I think Alan told me this in his posts.

My interests is going to earlier Z than mine always,honestly I can not be relax only to see "Series 1" in Ebay. Started from 10/69,there must be parts amendments almost every month or every a couple of month.I remember someone here said, "(worker in assembly line said) what changes do we have today?" I like that.And it is almost true I think.Personaly I do not look into 240Z as 1,2,3. I look into like this, is this car 10/69 or 11/69 or 12/69? etc.

By the way,in Japan we do not say Series 1,2,3,.We just do not have.We refer "44 (yon-yon, 1969)" " 45( yon-go, 1970)" like that.

Alan,let me introduce this,I really like your word in PM for me,I apologise this prior to get permission.

"... This is the FAMILY that we should look at. There are brothers and sisters in this family, but there is no 'King' that is superior to the others. That is what I believe..."

I started to think my 240Z based on this point of view.

Thank you,

kats

[moonpup]

OPB: 26th-Z

It seems so matter of course to recognize the whole family of Z cars and the first thread makes no distinction which is why I made my initial comments, moonpup. There is no question we are talking about a slang and I believe everyone understands that because we understand the "whole family" concept. Your comments made me wonder.

Chris - Sorry if you mistook the "he" in my statement as you. I should have made it more clear by saying....Why should we bring up the differences or similarities of other versions outside the U.S.A. that have no bearing on what the original poster was asking for? Isn't that called "thread hijacking"?

My comment was not directed at your posts, however, I've have to disagree with you as to the original thread not being distinct. As already noted, "Series 1" is a term used solely to describe variations in the US model 240Z. That's sounds distinct to me. He wasn't asking "why" certain parts ended up on his Z or how they related to other versions of the S30 but rather for a more concise definition of the "Series 1" term. Although those are interesting discussions, it wasn't the question asked.

Contrary to what some others may think, I have no problem with the discussion of all the S30 versions, but I do have one when a certain someone tries to shove it down our throats and then slams this site with comments like "...but that's par for the course here I guess."

He seems to require that every post discussing the Datsun 240Z must tangent off and follow his mantra: "Look at the whole family to fully understand each family member." and if we don't, we're akin to uneducated hillbillys or something. Seems pretty sanctimonious to me.