what is the TRUE definition of "Series 1"

[geezer]

Hi all,

THE WAY I SEE IT - History correctly portrayed would have to be laid out in this manner, but I would not call it a "family" but simply a production run, which can be defined differently depending on the export market involved. "Family" is a term used here primarily to desciibe all vehicles from the same manufacturer, but when addressing the planet it may not apply in that context. Depending on the export market involved, different stategies and nessessities arise. Compliance with government regulation, scheduled design changes,testing and customer feedback, production shortages, alternate suppliers, time restraints and the need to use existing stock, all contribute to the decisions made, either from boardroom mandates or the reality of the moment on the shop floor. The logistics must have been staggering. Trying to satisfy the appetite of the US market, which was the priority. (I would like to know if other countries other than the US had people lined up but unable to get a 1970.) Gaining a foothold in the US was the NO.1 objective. They had a thumb on the pulse of the planet and a clear winner of a product. They met the challenge, rapidly expanding and evolving. The production numbers tell the story. I guess, "WHEN IN ROME-DO AS THE ROMANS DO" would apply here, but would still need a common term.

[dogma420]

Alan, talk about going out of your way to be argumentative....

If us Americans want to informally classify 240s as Series 1,2,3,4 we can if we want to. Why would your arguments change that? If anything, the approach you go about trying to change this view makes anyone reading your views want to use the Series view, even if they never used it before.

[Zs-ondabrain]

So here's my next question...............

I've also noticed that my 8/70' 240Z does not have the holes in the body for the rear sway bar that mounts to the body. I had to instal the rear diff hangers that allow a rear sway bar to be hung near the back side of the diff.

http://www.classiczcars.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=18804&cat=500&ppuser=4921

http://www.classiczcars.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=18678&cat=500&ppuser=4921

So the question is...... what date did Nissan start putting on the body mounted rear sway bar? And were the hangers that I am using made or designed by Nissan or BRE or what? USA MODELS ONLY (For clarity sake)

Let's see where this one takes us.

Dave.

P.S. The site is not allowing me to upload pis at this time.

[JimmyZ]

I must have a 'mutt'. My 2/71 build date Z has the vented C-pillars with metal Z emblems, but the hatch has vertical defroster elements and vents. There was no evidence of an accident that would preclude hatch replacement. The lighter is just above the ashtray and the steering wheel has holes in the spokes. It has the 2 slot plate on the console for the choke and throttle, but only came with the choke lever. I feel that Nissan used up parts that were on hand as the production changes were implemented.

WE have mutts!! Mine has the exact same details.

HLS30 23654

2/71

[geezer]

Dave - Maybe, someone with a 10' foot pole will have the answer. I know the procedure used during the build. If a vehicle calls for a particular part it is installed. If a vehicle does not call for it, it may still be installed simply because in this case, that particular sub frame is on deck because of a shortage of sub assembled bracketless ones. In the case of sway bars you will find many cars with only the brackets. There will be a start up date for the introduction of rear sway bars that could be pinpointed. A TSB would have been issued.

[geezer]

PS - Technical service bulletins are not nessessarily issued to all delivery destinations. Not every change is dealt across the board worldwide.

[dogma420]

Dave, as I showed you, I have those brackets, got them with my Suspension Technique sway bars.

When I got them, ST said that those brackets were a proprietary design...so maybe yours are Suspension Technique's or they were lying and they're just a generic design?

I don't believe the rear sway bar was mountable without these brackets or just drilling holes under the spare tire until the 280z (I'm talking the US 1975 model year S30)...maybe the big bumper 74.5 260z?

Was the rear sway bar stock on the 73 240z? or the small bumper 74 260z? (US Versions)? I don't know...

I think the brackets that you have in your pictures (and I have on my rig) are a nice design...

http://www.classiczcars.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=14687&cat=500&ppuser=3789

[Carl Beck]

So here's my next question...............

I've also noticed that my 8/70' 240Z does not have the holes in the body for the rear sway bar that mounts to the body. I had to instal the rear diff hangers that allow a rear sway bar to be hung near the back side of the diff.

http://www.classiczcars.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=18804&cat=500&ppuser=4921

http://www.classiczcars.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=18678&cat=500&ppuser=4921

So the question is...... what date did Nissan start putting on the body mounted rear sway bar? And were the hangers that I am using made or designed by Nissan or BRE or what? USA MODELS ONLY (For clarity sake)

Let's see where this one takes us.

Dave.

Hi Dave:

Looking back at everything I have - it would appear that

1. The Parts Catalogs show 08/73 as the "From" date for the rear anti-sway bar, and "Up-To" of 07/73 as the rear bar being "optional".

2. It looks like the Nissan rear anti-sway bar always ran around the front of the diff. You had to drill your own holes in the floor to install the mounts.

3. The rear anti-sway bar that runs around the rear of the diff. along with it's mounting brackets was offered by BRE in 1970. I couldn't find any pictures of the BSR bar... so far I don't know what Bob Sharp sold... So at this point it looks like the mounting hardware you have was a BRE product..

FWIW,

Carl B.

[zack_280]

In this zhome article

http://zhome.com/History/DesignChanges.htm

The lowest VIN titles as a '71 is claimed to be 006072. Well, I have 005657 and it's titled as a '71. Not that it adds much to the discussion, but hey, I have the lowest VIN '71 240 (at least until someone comes around with a lower one).

[Zs-ondabrain]

Zack280Z,

So with proper documentation you can have your Z re-registered as a 70', which we all know will put your car into another class and make it worth more to the correct buyer.

It's my belief that any car that we know to be a 70' should be registered as such, not only for preservation of the species but to help the owners of those cars put their Z into the proper catagory. And of course make the car worth more money. Duh.

JM2CW,

Dave.

[26th-Z]

The Z is a world class sports car. A sports GT. Always has been. Still is. It has an incredible history - world wide. A great deal of that history is the "American story".

Chris,

To be frank, I think there are only a very few people that are willing to take the wider 'S30 family' view. It seems that it is much easier for people to believe that one market model was the single consideration of the designers and engineers, and that all other market models were forced to follow. We know from talking to the people involved that this is certainly not the case, do we not?Alan T.

My special greetings to Kats from whom I always enjoy hearing! I like to think that the line between what we "believe" is a grey shadow of a line and most around this web site talk about the American version simply for ease of discussion purposes. It is easy to loose sight of the big picture as most of us have only the local cars to deal with. Local issues. Local questions. However, one cannot escape the big picture if we are to discuss the peculiarities of our local cars. It is true that Nissan was seeking to expand its market to significant export around the time of the Z conception, however when one considers just exactly how the North American export cars were configured, the whole idea that the Z was intended soley for American consumption blows off the wings of a kite. In this thread, "Series" can have a deeper meaning when all the elements of design and marketing thought are taken into consideration. We don't have any clear records to point to. We have a lot of evidence to present in our particular point of view. We even prioritise our evidence to strengthen our case. So be it.

We see all sorts of build peculiarities for all sorts of reasons and it is a gas to sit around and discuss them. Clear glass, hatch vents, chassis reinforcement, sway bar mounts etc. all come with a stronger meaning when consideration is given to the whole group - the whole "family". S30, S30-S, PS30, HS30, and HLS30. Personally, I just can't get over why we didn't get the ZL, the 432, or the ZG. Cry'n shame.

[zpizzaman20]

Chris,

Well said! As a youth reading about those 432's, 432 R's and ZG's in articles we were not even sure they were real, they seemed like prototypes. What an amazing thing the internet is to let us look at the whole family. For me personally to have met Japanese Z fanatics, and to travel to Japan and touch those same cars was unbelievable. I was saying to myself, just pinch me, as I rode to the "Ultimate Show" last year, the Japanese version of a national convention, in a friends 432R.

Chris, you mentioned sitting around in a bar talking about all the small differences in these cars, as we have done many times. It is hard enough figuring out the changes in the HLS cars, when you throw in the HS, PS and the like my head hurts. I am always amazed at the level of knowledge that Alan has across the whole family. I look forward to meeting him one day, sitting in a pub and talking S30's.

Fred

HLS-00040, 10/69 waiting restoration

HLS-00095 10/69 disassembled, welding in progress

HLS-00793 12/69 driver

1978 280Z Black Pearl

1978 280Z Daily Driver 250K miles