what is the TRUE definition of "Series 1"

[Kathy & Rick]

Back to my earlier comment about clear hatch glass, was this the norm or was the vertical defroster lines the norm on Series 1 cars? I would like to replace my glass and can't find a clear replacement, whereas I can find the vertical defrost-lined glass.

Your thoughts?

Based on the VIN you provided I would suggest that the glass w/the vertical defroster is the appropriate one for your particular Z. I base this on my study which began about 37 years ago, in which my incomplete results show that the latest VIN I've seen w/o rear window defroster, w/o tinted glass, is VIN #00418. The earliest VIN I've seen w/vertical defroster is VIN #00965.

However, I believe the true transition is somewhere in the 500's based on other information available to me.

In any case, your car is well beyond the "no-defroster" group, but WAY before the horizontal defroster group (earliest VIN seen #65065).

Hope this helps you! All Z Best.............Rick

[HS30-H]

Latest VIN w/o rear window defroster, no tinted glass: #00418 11/69 George Panko

Earliest VIN w/rear window defroster, tinted glass: #00965 1/70 Joe Novak

It must have been envisioned to provide a rear window defroster at a later date since

the '69's had a blank in the console where the switch could be installed, as it was in '70.

You seem to have missed one of the points that was being made in this ( old ) thread.

That blanking plate in the console was there because a heated rear window was standard equipment from the beginning of production on models that were not sold in the north American market. Since they shared the same console part number, the models without the heated rear screens had to have a blanking plate instead of a switch.

You have - perhaps unwittingly - provided a perfect illustration of the kind of bear traps that are waiting for those who don't cross-reference details and specs across markets and contemporary models.

Alan T.

[sblake01]

Latest VIN w/o rear window defroster, no tinted glass: #00418 11/69 George Panko

I realize you're speaking of you own observations but the 70 I mentioned that I owned 'back in the day' was HLS30-00488. It didn't hve a rear window defroster or tinted glass.

EDIT: I just noticed how old this thread is......

Edited September 28, 2009 by sblake01

[bpilati]

Here are some differences that I have noted on my HS30-00352. This car is a low VIN and has a probable build date of 12/70. It is "likely" (but not certain) that is shares the same "bits" that the HLS30 "series 1" cars got.

1. Body shell lighter by 200lbs ???

2. Vented hatch

3. Solid B pillars ???

4. 240z badge on B pillar

5. Nissan 2400-OHC rocker cover

6. Back to front brake master

7. Cigarette lighter next to the ash tray (8/71)

8. A hand throttle

9. Swiss cheese rear deck

10. Tool boxes behind each seat

11. Seats only recline 10 degrees or so (8/71)

12. Chrome coat hooks

13. Split driveshaft

14. Solid steering wheel spokes

15. Flawed diff location (8/71)

16. Speedo that starts at 20mph

17. "D" hubcaps not the "Z" ones

18. Weak B pillars that cracked ???

19. Mystery space beside the speedo for a switch or cigarette lighter ???

20. Vertical rear demister (if fitted, dealer option) (8/71)

21. Rear speaker mounted behind the electric aerial. (8/71)

22. Centre vent has straight vanes not angled like in other models

23. Map light bezel has no hood like in other models.

Not sure what some of these mean.

[Carl Beck]

Hi Guys:

I can tell you that the Dealership I bought my first Z from - installed tinted rear windows with the defroster's - in cars that came from the factory without them per a TSO. This information was combined in a later TSB related to when the rear window defroster was changed for 72. See Attached.

Tinted glass and rear window defrosters were supposed to be "standard equipment" on the North American Datsun 240Z's. Although the first sales brochures listed them as "optional" - but we know there weren't any "options" - other than you had the option to buy the car or not. ;-)

There was no additional charge for these items, nor the labor as far as the Customers were concerned if they were listed on the original Window Sticker but not found on the car. If the Customer pointed to the sales brochures and was unhappy enough about not getting the "option" - he got them installed even if they weren't on his original window sticker - at no charge. Nissan shipped the parts and paid the labor at the Dealership, to correct the issue. As we see today, some people had the parts changed and many people didn't.

So today or 30 years ago - it is really impossible to tell how the specific car came from the factory prior to the items being included at the time of build - unless you look at the wiring itself. If you see U.S. standard automotive electrical wiring - you'll know that the Dealer installed the tinted rear window and defroster, or it was done at the Port, before being shipped to the Dealer.

Somewhat the same situation with "Carpeting" that was supposed to be standard on the North American cars - - - and which was produced locally and installed, or included with the car when shipped to the Dealer, after they arrived here.

According the Factory Service notice - the last 240Z shipped without the rear window defroster {and most likely tinted glass} was HLS30 1455. This was confirmed by it's owner. Michael F. Hollander. Us old guys will recall that Michael was the author of a Book "THE COMPLETE DATSUN GUIDE" in 1980, and was very active with the Datsun Owners Assoc. {as I recall} in the early 70's.

FWIW,

Carl B.

Edited September 29, 2009 by Carl Beck

[adamr]

Here are some differences that I have noted on my HS30-00352. This car is a low VIN and has a probable build date of 12/70. It is "likely" (but not certain) that is shares the same "bits" that the HLS30 "series 1" cars got.

1. Body shell lighter by 200lbs

2. Vented hatch

3. Solid B pillars

4. 240z badge on B pillar

5. Nissan 2400-OHC rocker cover

6. Back to front brake master

7. Cigarette lighter next to the ash tray

8. A hand throttle

9. Swiss cheese rear deck

10. Tool boxes behind each seat

11. Seats only recline 10 degrees or so

12. Chrome coat hooks

13. Split driveshaft

14. Solid steering wheel spokes

15. Flawed diff location

16. Speedo that starts at 20mph

17. "D" hubcaps not the "Z" ones

18. Weak B pillars that cracked

19. Mystery space beside the speedo for a switch or cigarette lighter

20. Vertical rear demister (if fitted, dealer option)

21. Rear speaker mounted behind the electric aerial.

22. Centre vent has straight vanes not angled like in other models

23. Map light bezel has no hood like in other models.

Good stuff. However, not all series 1 cars had the 2400-OHC valve cover;). I don't know when they changed to the NISSAN cover, though.

[HS30-H]

Not sure what some of these mean.

If you were a bit more specific, some kind person might volunteer to attempt to explain them to you.

Which points are you having trouble with?

[HS30-H]

Tinted glass and rear window defrosters were supposed to be "standard equipment" on the North American Datsun 240Z's. Although the first sales brochures listed them as "optional" - but we know there weren't any "options" - other than you had the option to buy the car or not. ;-)

Carl,

What do you mean exactly when you write "supposed to be"? Are you referring to official specification documentation, or anecdotal evidence?

It seems clear that the final spec details of the north American market cars were somewhat less than set in stone when the first cars were being produced. If you look at Publication No. SLE 0630-911027-U ( the 'DATSUN 240Z SPORTS' single-page flyer with the red car on the front ) you'd be under the impression that the cars were going to be fitted with triple side-draught Mikuni carbs and a 5-speed overdrive trans ( mated to a 3.364:1 ratio diff! ha ha ), but with vinyl floor covering, no clock and no radio. Many of the other specs and details on this document turned out to be less than accurate, didn't they?

So where does the "supposed to" come from, and from what date does it apply?

My impression is that there was something of a tug-o-war going on between Nissan Japan and NMC USA as to what would be supplied for the targetted low price that these cars would be sold for in the USA, and that the final specs were still being negotiated - let alone finalised - even while completed cars were being sold on north American showroom floors ( and I'm not talking about any fantasy 'purchases' that are alleged to have taken place in October 1969, before cars were physically there, either ).

Alan T.

[Mike B]

And I'm still interested to see an official Nissan Japan-sourced document that mentions "Series" numbers. Anybody got something that mentions the 'S' word specifically?

Alan,

Chris and I were discussing this recently and I remembered that I had seen the term "series" used in one of the Nissan books I have, but I couldn't recall which one. I searched around and came across this reference in a NMC USA Collision Estimating Book dated March 1977. The "Billy Gordon Datsun" image on the cover is just a sticker for that particular dealership.

-Mike

[HS30-H]

Mike,

Thanks - that's fascinating. First time I've seen the word "series" linked to years/specs in an 'official' Nissan document, rather than the very common ( and quite logical ) use of the word 'series' as in "Model S30-series" - meaning the whole range of market & model variants at time of publication.

Of course I notice that this is an NMC USA-published document, which is - in my opinion - one step away from Nissan Japan, which my question originally addressed. So we could say it's a piece of 'local' terminology, yes?

I also notice that the 'Series' numbers quoted for 'years' ( do they mean 'Model Years'? ) line up with chassis numbers quoted in the C-0010U USA & Canada Parts Catalog:

FROM C/# HLS30-00013 - FROM OCT-69

FROM C/# HLS30-21001 - FROM JAN-71

FROM C/# HLS30-46001 - FROM SEP-71

FROM C/# HLS30-120001 - FROM JUL-72

Somehow the application of "Series" in this USA/Canada market context does seem rather arbitrary.

Cheers,

Alan T.

[240znz]

If you were a bit more specific, some kind person might volunteer to attempt to explain them to you.

Which points are you having trouble with?

Heh Byran, let m eknow what you need explained and I'll see if I can help. Car is in bit but easy enough to take photos if required. Remember it is a HS30, not a HLS30.

[kats]

Hi Mike and Alan,

I had never seen "Series" for S30 models before your post,and Mike made me look into my collections,finally I found my collision books.

For USA 240Z, I have 2 books 1970 and 1970/1971. They do not mention about Series,seems Nissan USA national parts dept. did not need to do.

510 and others have Series,I did not know that.

What a interesting is,the price of parts.Some are the same but some are higher between 1970 and 1971.Did you notice a hub cap is only $11.77,well, almost 40 years ago:)

kats