2007 Z National Convention (ZCON) Info

[Zulaytr]

Yes you will receive your score sheets from the ZCCA. I recently talked to Paul Hollander, who does that task, and he said he was almost done and they should be going out soon. It takes some time to log them all in, copy, do the letters and envelopes and get them to the post office. Again you should be getting yours soon.

[Carl Beck]

.... It takes some time to log them all in, copy, do the letters and envelopes and get them to the post office. .

If that is the actual case - they have a totally screwed up process and they need to fix it. Every car had a scoring sheet - and it should have been simply photocopied and handed to the participants when it was completed by the Judges. The participants should have had their copy at the same time the committee gathering and totalling the scores got their's.

FWIW,

Carl B.

[turbo 260]

Carl,

If it was only that easy. Unfortunately there was no photocopy machine at our disposal at the track. I guess that that could have been done at the hotel at some point, but then we would need to find each person to hand them out. secondly, and more impotantly, you don't want to give out scoring sheets before the closing banquet, or while judges are still around. People will share and compare scores which will lead to everyone knowing the results before the banquet. The other problem is the judges. If they get bombarded, and running Z Fest trust me they will, it will be hard to get volunteers for future conventions. I do agree that they should be able to get them out sooner, but I think that late year date probably messed that up with the holidays being so soon after the convention.

Jim

[hls30.com]

I have communicated with Mr. Hollander many times since the convention, and on more than one occasion he has expressed that there will be some changes coming in in the rules and paper handling.

WIll

[Carl Beck]

Hi Jim:

What can I say?..... I understand your perspective as an event organizer/worker. I simply have a different perspective to express.

Respectfully, I believe that you have the focus of your attention and/or concerns placed on the wrong group of people, if the Annual ZCCA Convention is ever to become the event that it would be capable of growing into.

I guess it would depend on what the actual "Goal" is. a) to hold a reasonable event year after year at the Annual ZCCA Conventions around the country; or to actually grow the ZCCA's Annual Convention Car Show into the Leading National Level Event for Z Cars that it could become.

The number of Z's entered in the annual Car Shows at the conventions "seems" to be stagnating at around 200 cars. Some years more some years less... but over the past 16 years the attendance and entries have not grown consistently larger year after year. That indicates that too many people are not returning year after year, while being joined by ever more new attendees from the local area, or new owners coming into the hobby.

By focusing on what is convenient, fun, easy, practical or desired for the people "hosting" the event - - you have lost track of the real "customers". The real customers are the individuals that put tens of thousands of dollars, plus untold hours into their cars, then at great personal effort and expense bring their pride and joy to the convention, and pay to enter a Judged Car Show.

You are absolutely correct - given copies of their judging sheets the same day - would allow all the participates time to talk to one another, look at other examples that did not contain the flaws they were dinged with, and yes... so what... they would know ahead of the closing who won at least in the their class - - but they would still have to be at the closing to get the complete story, and receive the honors they are due. It would also give them time to talk to the Judges about how to correct the items they lost points for, or to protest and resolve differences of opinion while everyone is still gathered etc. etc.

Here in Florida, for our Government at all levels, we have the "Florida Government In The Sunshine Laws". There is a reason for that and it should not be lost on the ZCCA .... The Judges and Event Organizers, going off in closed sessions, totally up the scores and announcing the results days later, at the very end of the convention, denies the participants any real recourse... Once off by themselves at home, they have no opportunity to talk to one another and compare cars and notes etc. IHMO all of that severely hurts the creditability and objectively of the entire process.

If the judging sheets were mailed out a week later, a month later or six months later - it really wouldn't matter that much. The participants would still be home by then... with no one else to talk to, or work with, in their efforts to improve their vehicles for the next years event. Perhaps that is one reason many do not return the following year.

I only speak for myself as a spectator .... but I would have liked to have seen the Scoring Sheets posted publicly while the cars were still available to for viewing. That way I could clearly see what area's to focus my attention on while restoring a Classic Datsun 240-Z of my own. Not to mention having the time to talk to the owners of the prize winning examples about how they did it....

No system is perfect and I don't mean to be too critical (although it may seem that way)... just some honest feedback from the peanut gallery.

FWIW,

Carl B.

[turbo 260]

Carl,

I don't think that you are being critical, you have very good points. Maybe it should be suggested to the ZCCA to have the car show awards at the end of the show, or at least that night. I believe the owners of many of the better Z's in the show know who the judges are, and probably do talk to them afterwards. Unfortunately there still are only a very few Zs that are really excellent examples to be judged (at least at the convention, I know that there are many more examples that the ZCCA needs to draw to the convention). I could see posting the rejudged cars, as they are the best of the field. Some of the other cars really get picked apart, and I doubt the owners would like to see that posted for all to see.

There is room fro the ZCCA to really elevate the national show. I'll forward these ideas, and any others that anyone would like to suggest, to Paul, the ZCCA and the Ohio gang. One thing I would like to point out, this years car show had 88 cars, I believe the most ever was just over 100 which is the cap. But when you add in the people's choice, we had almost 200. That is far more than the other conventions that I attened (Georgia, San Antonio, and Dallas). I think that people's choice is a great idea to expand the show to let in those who don't want to be nit picked judged, but still be in the show.

Jim

[LBO730]

Man Carl, does this subject hit a sour note with me. In fact, sour (sore) for the last 10 years which is how long its been since I attended a convention because of the very things you have mentioned. I returned home from the York convention in 97 with 2nd place in the "stock modified" class and having no clue what the deductions were for. The judging sheets finally arrived weeks later showing a total of 269 points. It was only then that I find out I had 11 points deducted in my engine compartment for "non stock" items such as oil filter & hose clamps. My car wasn't in the "stock" class. I had points deducted for "clock doesn't work", "dome light doesn't work" in the interior. The moron didn't take into consideration that my battery cable was disconnected!!! Needless to say, I had spent 5 years preparing a gold medallion car only to get shafted by 1 judge that was too much of a coward to sign their name legibly and another that was a member of the Tennessee club I was a member of at the time. A nit-picking judge is one thing, but there is no excuse for an incompetent judge at what is suppose to be a National level event. Sorry to rant here but I've heard this same story so many times from other (1 time attendees) that it makes me sick that nothing is ever done.

You have absolutely hit the nail on the head. The real "customers" are those of us who have "put put tens of thousands of dollars, plus untold hours into their cars, then at great personal effort and expense bring their pride and joy to the convention, and pay to enter a Judged Car Show". One things for sure, the ZCCA convention car show is currently nothing more than a "run of the mill" event with a National label.

Whew, that felt good! Been waitin 10 years to get that off my chest!! :classic:

[26th-Z]

This is too funny! Carl, you are so far out of bounds.

[Zulaytr]

The mail just came and as an FYI for those who are looking for their scoring sheets from the show, mine just came. Hopefully, those who are anxiously awaiting them will get theirs in the next day or so.