5 speed in a 4 speed question

[HS30-H]

If you say so, as you're there and I'm not. But my factory service manual for '70-71 S30s shows a 3.70:1 with the Type A 5 speed, as does this clipping from the original Road & Track Tech Analysis for the 240Z. R&T might be wrong, but I'd generally expect the FSM to be moderately accurate.

Arne,

I believe the R&T magazine data would refer to the HLS30U models when equipped with the FS5C71-A ( as an "option" ), no?

I have a 1970 FSM ( this particular edition primarily aimed at the HLS30U models ) and it clearly states the 3.9 diff ratio to be paired with the FS5C71-A.

See the attached scan:

The 3.9 diff ratio is a nice pairing with the FS5C71-A transmission ratios, and I never understand why some people who purposely select a sports/GT car would seem to be so frightened of using peak revs and staying in the power band for longer. Curious.

[Arne]

Arne,

I believe the R&T magazine data would refer to the HLS30U models when equipped with the FS5C71-A ( as an "option" ), no?

I have a 1970 FSM ( this particular edition primarily aimed at the HLS30U models ) and it clearly states the 3.9 diff ratio to be paired with the FS5C71-A.

The R&T data was what was given them by Datsun/Nissan just prior to the US launch. They included data on both the 5 speed and the automatic, neither of which were available at launch. The automatic was introduced with 9/70 production, the FS5C71-A was never offered in the US 240Z at all. (But I'd love to have one.) I've always assumed that the data they were given was based on what was going to be available in the rest of the world, but that may not be the case.

I'm going to have to double-check my FSM, which I thought had specs for cars other than HLS30U as well, but now I'm not so sure. Of course, I don't have my FSM here at work.

[mlc240z]

bought what i think was one of the last shift kits from Courtesy Nissan on 9/05 (p/n 99996-e3030) for $40. it took a couple of months to receive.

this is supposedly the Nissan Competition shifter/bushings that will allow a type B 4spd to fit in an early Z without any tunnel trimming. haven't installed yet:(

don't know if this just was a temporary shortage or if it's NLA.

[geezer]

I have been using the Search Function trying to find when the F5C71B was first available. It is a close ratio, overdrive unit that was a dealer option on the Fairlady Z. Also, what shifter was originally used with this. The modified one I have works fine, but I would rather have the proper one.

[Arne]

bought what i think was one of the last shift kits from Courtesy Nissan on 9/05 (p/n 99996-e3030) for $40. it took a couple of months to receive.

Could you post a picture of this shift lever?

[mlc240z]

new camera. haven't figured out how to shut flash off yet so it's a little washed out.

shifter is p/n 32841-n3101

[Carl Beck]

... snipped..cjb

The 3.9 diff ratio is a nice pairing with the FS5C71-A transmission ratios, and I never understand why some people who purposely select a sports/GT car would seem to be so frightened of using peak revs and staying in the power band for longer. Curious.

Hi Alan:

Could be that they were afraid of all the speeding fines they'd accumulate.

Looking at the over-all gearing of US Spec. 240-Z's and Euro Spec cars...

<pre>

Over-all gearing

US Euro.

1. 11.92 11.53

2. 7.36 7.25

3. 4.77 5.11

4. 3.36 3.90

5. 3.32

</pre>

It would seem that in terms of over-all gearing the US Spec. Cars are geared very slightly lower in 1st and 2nd. Nonetheless it seems to me that if you stayed in the power band - 3,500 RPM to say 4,500 RPM for normal driving..

You'd be doing something like 21/27 mph in 1st, then 35/45 mph in 2nd. At that you'd be at the speed limit for driving on city streets, most places in America. Keeping the US Spec. car at the power band in 3rd gear would put you in the 55/70 mph range. Keeping the US Spec. car in 4th gear and in the Rev Range would be 75/97 mph. That would be at or well above the speed limits in most places...

It's actually about the same for the Euro Spec. cars - 1st gear 22/28 mph, 2nd gear 35/45 mph, 3rd gear 50/64 mph, 4th gear 65/84 mph and 5th gear 78/99 mph.

Final drive in both cars is also about the same.. 3.36 vs 3.32

I can see how having that extra step between 3rd gear and the final drive would be an advantage in road racing,where the on track conditions would benefit from staying in a higher Rev Range.. 4000 RPM to 6000 RPM with a race prepared engine - and where the associated speeds would be allowed - but I don't see it being of much use for a sports/GT here in the States driven on the streets, nor here in the States driven on the Freeways at 70-80 mph. On the tracks of course all the teams ran various competition 5 speeds and rear end ratio's selected for the specific track.

Given the market competition here in the States and given the average use of the car here - a 5spd. simply wasn't called for. By 1977, with a heaver car and given the competition in the market, a 5sd. for the 280Z made more sense.

Personally, as I stated earlier - I put a 5sp. in an otherwise stock 240-Z, mostly to drop the engine RPM at 80 mph for longer drives (6 to 18 hours) to reduce noise in the car... and partly due to the fact that a gallon of gas that was $0.29 in 1970 - is now $2.25.

FWIW,

Carl B.

[geezer]

I found out the shift kit I need is 99996-E3030. I've got a feeling this is going to be a tough one to find. Does anyone have one, or a picture of one. This is the modified one I have that works well, just doesn't look nice and I don't trust the weld.

[Carl Beck]

Hi Ron:

See: <a href=http://zhome.com/ZCMnL/tech/AandBtranny.htm TARGET=NEW>This Article on the Z Car Home Page</a> The part you listed is shown there.

FWIW,

Carl B.

Cleaarwater, FL

[Arne]

Looks like I should snag one of those levers if I ever see one.

[geezer]

Thanks Carl - I did read that article earlier but discounted it because that shifter didn't look like my modified one. It was later, on another site that I found the part number and just didn't make the connection. Now that you have pointed it out, I went out to the garage and took a better look. That's it alright, now I just need to find one. Thanks

[HS30-H]

I have been using the Search Function trying to find when the F5C71B was first available. It is a close ratio, overdrive unit that was a dealer option on the Fairlady Z. Also, what shifter was originally used with this.

No, the F5C71-B transmission was a DIRECT FIFTH gear unit, with a 'Dog Leg First' shift pattern ( nicknamed the "Low Back" in Japan ) as First gear was selected in the same plane as Reverse gear - with Second, Third, Fourth and Fifth in the normal 'H' pattern. This was not an Overdrive transmission.

Don't get it mixed up with the FS5C71-B ( note that extra letter S in there ) which was an Overdrive trans, and with a conventional shift pattern.

Given the market competition here in the States and given the average use of the car here - a 5spd. simply wasn't called for. By 1977, with a heaver car and given the competition in the market, a 5sd. for the 280Z made more sense.

Carl,

What look like small numerical differences in overall gearing on your chart actually - in the opinions of many - translate into very noticeable differences in the hands-on driving experience. I don't think legal speed limits have very much to do with it to be honest. If they did, the designers might just as well have given us all two speed trannies........

I've seen you mention before that you think the five-speed transmissions fitted to non-USA market car were to make up for a lack of power, which is curious when you consider that all other market models had a five speed available from the beginning of production and sales.

The fact is that the HLS30-U models were given the 4-speed trans as standard equipment because it was part of the cost-cutting effort and effective 'dumbing down' for one market sector, and a perceived image of the potential customer base of that period.