5 speed in a 4 speed question

[geezer]

Thanks Alan - Your response prompted me to pull the transmission out and find out for sure what it is. I have not started the engine since I bought the car, so that made it impossible (for me anyways) to identify it, or even check the shift pattern. I was relying on what the PO told me. He told me it was from the Fairlady Z he parted out long ago, and the transmission was the one from the performance catalogue. Later on, that added to my confusion. You could interpret that statement many ways. He went on in my conversation with him about the absolute perfection of the drivetrain and urged me to try his setup before restoring the car. He said it was the perfect autocross car. He was a good salesman. The subject of shift patterns never came up. Now that it's out of the car and I checked it, your right about adding that S. I have to figure out the ratios, and the diff. ratio too. Another thing somebody might know about is the JDM Trust header and twice pipes that came with this car but not installed. Has anyone tried to put them in a left hand drive? Wow, they are built of some hefty stuff! Thanks

[jmortensen]

I found out the shift kit I need is 99996-E3030. I've got a feeling this is going to be a tough one to find. Does anyone have one, or a picture of one. This is the modified one I have that works well, just doesn't look nice and I don't trust the weld.

The shifter I made looks a lot like this one. I took a truck shifter, cut it right above the pivot and welded it back together at a 90 degree angle. Then heated it with a torch and bent the stick up so that it comes out right in the middle of the hole in the floor. I had to cut it to length and ground down the tip so that I could run an 8x1.25 die down it to attach the shift knob. In retrospect what I should have also done is drill the pivot hole on the trans up about 1/4 inch, but it worked this way despite the fact that the shifter hit the inside of the socket in the top of the trans, and the longer length does reduce the throw.

[geezer]

Hi Jon - I just checked. The pivot hole hasn't been altered on this one and the shifter doesn't come close to hitting the inside of the socket or anything else. It comes up dead nuts in the center of the floor opening. When I got the car the console was not in it. The inner boot was mounted and the outer boot was laying loose. Because of the rather extreem offset of the shifter, it did stress the inner boot somewhat. It actually is a great design but I was just leary of it being a welded piece. I consider myself to be a good welder and although I didn't do this one, it is done well. Do you think I should just send it out for chrome and not worry about a break occuring?

[jmortensen]

Hi Alan:

Could be that they were afraid of all the speeding fines they'd accumulate.

Looking at the over-all gearing of US Spec. 240-Z's and Euro Spec cars...

<pre>

Over-all gearing

US Euro.

1. 11.92 11.53

2. 7.36 7.25

3. 4.77 5.11

4. 3.36 3.90

5. 3.32

It would seem that in terms of over-all gearing the US Spec. Cars are

geared very slightly lower in 1st and 2nd. Nonetheless it seems to me

that if you stayed in the power band - 3,500 RPM to say 4,500 RPM for

normal driving...

You make a good point here Carl, and this is why the 77-79 5 speed works with the 3.54 that it came with originally. The ratios for 1-4 are basically the same as the 4 speed, and the 5th is not as tall as the ZX transmission.

The advantage to the ZX or Euro 5 speed is that you can get the same type of gear reduction for 1-4, but you have an extra overdrive gear. You can take full advantage of that with a lower rear end ratio. With a stock rear end you get none of the advantages, and a gear spread that is pretty much unusable.

I think Alan is right too that the numbers don't make it apparent that there is a huge difference, but to a driver there really is, especially when considering the 2-3 shift in these two transmissions. The all of the 4 speeds and the 77-79 5 speed has a large rpm drop on the 2-3 shift that the ZX and Euro 5 speed do not have. Sure, more noticeable to a racer, but still, a really noticeable difference to anyone who drives the two transmissions back to back.

Putting a 3.36 or a 3.54 behind a ZX 5 speed is not a good idea because 1st is much taller. With the 3.36 1st gear goes 47 mph, 2nd 77mph, and 5th has a completely unrealistic 192mph with a stock 7000 rpm redline. Better to get the numbers down to a more realistic top speed, something the engine is actually capable of pushing the car near to, and then use the gear reduction from the ring and pinion to make the car quicker, at least that's my opinion. But I come from the viewpoint of a guy who liked to drive his Z fast on the street and also autoxes and did the occasional track day, I'm not somebody who drives cross country with a Z regularly.

[jmortensen]

Hi Jon - I just checked. The pivot hole hasn't been altered on this one and the shifter doesn't come close to hitting the inside of the socket or anything else. It comes up dead nuts in the center of the floor opening. When I got the car the console was not in it. The inner boot was mounted and the outer boot was laying loose. Because of the rather extreem offset of the shifter, it did stress the inner boot somewhat. It actually is a great design but I was just leary of it being a welded piece. I consider myself to be a good welder and although I didn't do this one, it is done well. Do you think I should just send it out for chrome and not worry about a break occuring?

The problem I had with the truck shifter was particular to the truck or 4 speed shifters. They are longer on the bottom between the pivot and the ball than 5 speed shifters are. That is the reason why it hit. If you have a 5 speed shifter you won't have that issue.

Mine has a more severe bend at the back than yours, which probably alleviates a lot of the pressure on the boot. Mine is bent in a fairly sharp 90 degree bend and comes directly out the center of the hole in the floor.

As far as breaking the shifter goes, I don't think that is an issue with any shifter unless you shift like an angry gorilla. I know a couple guys who have broken shifters and the idea of that just kinda leaves me dumbstruck. If it isn't going into gear, the solution is not to yank as hard as you can on the stick... ;-)

[Arne]

Jon, next time you have yours out of the car, I'd love to see a picture of it.

[geezer]

I would like to see that too. I can see how changing the pivot point can shorten up the throw.

[Marty Rogan]

I found out the shift kit I need is 99996-E3030. I've got a feeling this is going to be a tough one to find. Does anyone have one, or a picture of one. This is the modified one I have that works well, just doesn't look nice and I don't trust the weld.

I modified a shifter that looks very close to yours and works fine. The shift book covers up the ugly weld. In looking at Bart's from the shift kit, I think that would still interfere with the trans tunnel. I found that you need to move the shaft position more toward the rear of the pivot point, instead of coming out of the top of the pivot point.

Marty

[geezer]

I think your right Marty. With mine, about 3/8" of metal removed is enough. It would be easy enough change the pivot point where it works best. I still need chrome though. It's got bite marks that will still show.

[jmortensen]

Sounds like Marty and I have pretty much the same thing going on. Here's the pics you asked for Arne:

And here's a thread about the difference between the truck shifter, the 5 speed shifter and the Nissan Comp short shifter. Also deals with moving the pivot point, etc. Pretty much all you need to know, thanks to Darrel:

http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=96707

[Marty Rogan]

Sounds like Marty and I have pretty much the same thing going on. Here's the pics you asked for Arne:

And here's a thread about the difference between the truck shifter, the 5 speed shifter and the Nissan Comp short shifter. Also deals with moving the pivot point, etc. Pretty much all you need to know, thanks to Darrel:

http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=96707

Yep, that looks almost EXACTLY like mine.

Marty

[geezer]

WOW! - That was a lot of reading. Nuff said about that subject. It never ceases to amaze me how a pretty simple question and answer session can snowball into a 360 degree hailstorm. But that's how things get done. Anyhow, I learned everything I need to know (at least about shifters). Thanks for all the help guys.