Understanding Car Show rules

[hls30.com]

Car Show rules sometimes are subject to interpretation, and as more people enter a hobby, are sometimes found not to be as well defined as intended, Since the ZCCA show rules are important to the Z community, lets deal with them first.

I hope to have some help in pasting some posts from another thread here as a starting point...

Will

[hls30.com]

First, The rules on the ZCCA site are revised 2002, but I have a printed copy that was revised in November 2005, does anybody have a link to a newer revision? No sense discussing something that has changed...

I just requested direction to the latest version of the rules from the webmaster at the ZCCA

Will

[hls30.com]

It looks like the ZCCA is contact challenged-emials to the webmaster and all other contacts listed bounced back.

[Mr Camouflage]

I Wonder if they understand the rules?

A) STOCK CLASS

Vehicles exhibited must be configured exactly as shipped from factory (NOT DEALER). Cars with Dealer add-ons such, as wheels, other than stock tires, side moldings, etc. can enter this class with deductions for same. Radios, paint color, tires, etc. must be as shipped. A/C must be factory installed except 240Z which may have same A/C as installed by dealer, i.e. ARA or Frigid King, with basic York

compressor.

No Dealer installed options, apart form Air con on a 240Z. Dealer installed air con on a 260z and you get pinged. Seems a bit hypocritical. 240Z's didn't have factory Air con, so they should be docked a point (or whatever) if they have a dealer fitted air con.

I wonder how they feel about the hold down hooks? Since they were only fitted for transport, and were supposed to be removed by the dealer before sale. But in there class rules the car is supposed to be as it left the factory.

Personally I'm not interested in the Judging aspect of car shows. I appreciate a car for what it is, and the quality of work that has gone into it, regardless of whether it can be pigeon-holed into a category.

[Marty Rogan]

I believe I have seen the 2002 version, but hot the 2005. I would be interested to see the updated one.

There can be a lot of variability in application of the rules depending on the show you are at and who the judges are.

Local shows will have less understanding of the rules in a lot of cases. The judges knowledge of what a 240Z should look like as it left the factory can also vary widely. I think the national shows would hold the highest standards for both.

This is an interesting topic. I have oftern wondered how my 70Z would do at a national show. They have always been too far away to attend. I hear the 2008 show is in Ohio, which is very doable from Chicago. My car is very original, with one major exception. The PO painted it a non-standard color. Because of that I figured I would have to enter it into the daily driver catagory. I would love to get a few informed opions on that. Let me know what you guys think.

Will, are you planning to enter your car at the national Convention?

Marty

[hls30.com]

My '72 is signed up even though I have yet to finish the bodywork, and it is still axles up on my rotisserie.

I am probably entering in either the Nissan or Street Modified class-depending on rules interpretation-fortunately, the signup process stated that the class would be verified before the show.

Because of some of the things I am doing with the car, and the wording of the rules I have a few questions about what constitutes a modification to confirm-I am assuming on the side of having "No" for an answer, but "Yes" could radically change things. I would prefer to have the answers that the rules should successfully convey, and not the questions that I am left with. But! A current copy of the rules may well address my questions!

Will

[Arne]

This is an interesting topic. I have oftern wondered how my 70Z would do at a national show. They have always been too far away to attend. I hear the 2008 show is in Ohio, which is very doable from Chicago. My car is very original, with one major exception. The PO painted it a non-standard color. Because of that I figured I would have to enter it into the daily driver catagory. I would love to get a few informed opions on that. Let me know what you guys think.

I'm in a similar boat, Marty. I have stock steel wheels and D caps, cloth-covered hoses, AM radio, Koito headlights and dated plug wires for the red 240Z. But the sunroof boots it from the stock class - even though (like many back then) it was reputedly installed by/for the dealer prior to sale to the original owner.

And that's what seems so restrictive about the stock issue - we all know what the demand for these cars was, especially the '70 and 71s. Many dealers were routinely dressing them up with dealer-installed options and accessories, knowing that if someone fussed about paying extra, the next person on the list probably wouldn't. Take it or leave it. So by mid-71, lots of them (a majority, perhaps) were not "Stock-class-eligible" before they first left the lot.

[ggarrard]

Will - The current Exec Director of ZCCA is Paul Gasparola. He should be able to point you to the most recent judging rules. Unfortunately all I have is the 2001/02 version. The contact info I have for Paul is:

Paul Gasparola

Executive Director - Z Car Club Association

6 Jason Drive

Londonderry, NH 03053

Email: Director@ZCCA.ORG

or

avalonracing@adelphia.net

Please note - this info is 6 months old, and could be out of date...

Regards

GWGarrard

[ggarrard]

Arne - My understanding of the ZCCA judging rules is that dealer installed options do not prevent you from entering the stock class....but you would loose points for the "changes". Your car could still be the "best" stock at any given ZCCA judged show...depending on the others in your class.

(I could be wrong though....)

GWGarrard

[Marty Rogan]

I'm in a similar boat, Marty. I have stock steel wheels and D caps, cloth-covered hoses, AM radio, Koito headlights and dated plug wires for the red 240Z. But the sunroof boots it from the stock class - even though (like many back then) it was reputedly installed by/for the dealer prior to sale to the original owner.

And that's what seems so restrictive about the stock issue - we all know what the demand for these cars was, especially the '70 and 71s. Many dealers were routinely dressing them up with dealer-installed options and accessories, knowing that if someone fussed about paying extra, the next person on the list probably wouldn't. Take it or leave it. So by mid-71, lots of them (a majority, perhaps) were not "Stock-class-eligible" before they first left the lot.

I also have the stock radio, wheels, D-hubcaps, braided hoses, Koito headlights to put on. But I am not about to tear the car apart and pay tons of money just to get a stock color. Your last comment is so true. Even brand new they may not have qualified!

Marty

[hls30.com]

Will - The current Exec Director of ZCCA is Paul Gasparola. He should be able to point you to the most recent judging rules. Unfortunately all I have is the 2001/02 version. The contact info I have for Paul is:

Paul Gasparola

Executive Director - Z Car Club Association

6 Jason Drive

Londonderry, NH 03053

Email: Director@ZCCA.ORG

or

avalonracing@adelphia.net

Please note - this info is 6 months old, and could be out of date...

Regards

GWGarrard

Thanks!

I sent my question to everone with a ZCCA.org address and every one bounced back to me(then I tried the next one), I'll try the alternate. you listed.

Will

[gnosez]

I have judged national ZCCA car shows since 2000 and for better or worst am considered a "senior" judge. That being said, I leave the judging of "stock" Zs to someone with a lot more experience and knowledge as to what was and wasn't stock for each and every Z model. And yes, there is a stock 350 class.

Some of the recent changes to carshow procedures and rules changes have resulted from work I have been involved in. Pre-classifying cars (a sort of tech inspection) a day or two prior to the show allows people to make chages to the class or how they want to present their car (adding or taking off parts).

There was a long thread on this topic a few years back (Chris Wenzel I think started it), but let me sum it up for those involved so far in this thread.

Stock class is the easiest class to lose points in than any other class (street, nissan mod, ultra) making it the hardest to get a high score (290+ out of 300)

Unless you have mis-classified your car (have a V-8 and put it in street mod), the only issue is how clean and well presented your car is as opposed to the others in your class. Once you move out of the stock class cleanliness is god (not close to god).

In stock class you are judged on BOTH the cleanliness and the correctness of the parts on your Z. From the three pics included of the 240Z Series I, it has the correct steering wheel but aftermarket carpets and a nonperiod correct armrest/cupholder. The metal fan is correct but the coil is not. Post more pics and I can walk you through any other items that will be considered a deduction. Those three items alone would lose you more than 10 points out of 300, then take points off for the usual wear and tear, grime, rust, etc. and you have a 270 car at best.

Depending on your competition you could win in your class with these items left as is. People spend hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars to make a "stock" Z stock as far as judging goes.

Got questions, I'll try and answer them for you.