Understanding Car Show rules

[gnosez]

Other than a right side mirror (required in your State for a vehicle over 25yrs old?), there is nothing on that list that is required by any MVD that I am aware of. They are options an owner might want to add but may or may not be stock (AT was). So I am again confused by this concern on your part.

If you added PS to your 280 and it was not available as a stock item from the factory it is a deduction, IF and ONLY IF you entered your car in stock class.

You can take an extremely clean but ultra mod Z, put it in stock class and get points deduced. You can put an almost stock Z in stock class and get points deduced for non-stock parts. You can say screw this and put the car in daily driver. Going for a stock class trophy is harder than say Street or Nissan Modified. Unless you think your car is a very good candidate for stock, then put it either of the above classes. Unsure? Take it to a Z club near you and have the members who enter their cars in ZCCA shows go over your car.

As to detailing tips, I will start a list and post that later as I need to do my Saturday chores.....

[gnosez]

ZHead - contact Charlie Osborne in Kingston, and go see his two (2) gold medal winners. Then compare them to your Z.

[zhead240]

thanx-just might do that if i get some spare time this summer. i followed the story his tenth anniverary zed.

[hls30.com]

I went throught the rules and was left with three areas of questions as they relate to the Street Modified and Nissan Modified classes. Please assume all parts in question to be new old stock-or equivalent in condition.

1) Though changing color does make a visable difference, if I change the color of an OEM group of parts will each group/piece count as a modification?

In example:

In the engine compartment, If I paint/powder coat/plate all of the OEM brackets one color(but not the color they came in), and paint/powder coat/plate the OEM exhaust manifold a different color, how many modifications will that be counted as?

2) I may be using some genuine Nissan parts from the same year but different market S30. As some cars did come from the factory(as opposed to the dealer) with these parts, do they count as a modification.

In example:

I am planning to use a fuse box area cover with a dual rocker parking light switch. The cover assembly was made to fit my console and simply was not a part intended to be destined for dealers in the USA. Will that be counted as a modification?

3) I am entering a '72 240Z and will be using cosmetic parts from earlier and later 240Zs, will each instance be a modification-even though the parts are listed as interchangeable in the USA/Canada parts book dated November of 1974?

In example:

I will be using an early Red dot rearview mirror, and a later pull type Hazzard light switch, in an early dash in a 1972 240Z. How many modifications will that be counted as?

Thanks for your thoughts!

Will

[gnosez]

The simple answer to all your questions/concerns re: mods is that on a non-stock class Z, all the mods you are planning or have done are just fine and no deductions would be taken if they are clean. Look at the number of mods and see which class you might be put in.

As to single vs mulitple deductions, an item listed on the judging sheet may have more than one part included in that line item but the deductions are for the overall item itself (cooling sytem includes the radiator, radiator cap, hoses, fan and fan clutch). Points taken off are done in a holistic mannner.

I need a break from work, send bus fare and I'll come and judge your Z.

[kats]

Hi,

This is my thoughts about car show,you may know I brought my 240Z twice,2000 Las Vegas and 2004 Long beach from Japan.These are wonderful experience for me,I thank you every one.I saw lots of wonderful Z people and this brings me that I have been keeping touch with these Zfriends.

First,I did not need to be "strict" too much for very little thing.For example,

I wanted judge to take concern the badges are all metal, front bumper and brackets are original "single bolt",very original rubber nipple over rider,hose clamps are original,fuel gas evapo tank and hoses are original and new,cam shaft and pistons and valves and crank are original over 30 years old etc etc...

My 240Z remains lots of over 30 years old original exterior /interior/engine/axle parts.All functional lights and electrical system,locks,etc etc..They are my big points,but not for judges.

The judges do not check my engine condition,my buzzer for door opening,illumination for instrument panel ,radio and functional antenna,clutch for cooling fun, etc etc...

It's all about deduction rule.My 240Z has lots of "not clean parts". And the biggest deduction is my exterior blue metallic is not original color.(Some 20 years later,if exterior deteriorated,I want my 240Z to be #903 blue:love: )

There is no additional points.

Just need to be clean,cleanness and collect parts for only VISIBLE area.

The judges do not peal trim panels,do not open the cam cover,these are needless to say.

Thank you,

kats

P.S. this photo is Z432,very very clean and original collect parts,but to be deducted a lot.Because of the color,a lot of "not collect" zinc plated.The block should be silver.

[hls30.com]

I simply want to see what will count as a Modification to be sure I don't exceed 25-I am not worried about deductions. With EVERYTHING counted as a mod, I have 29, and I have more up my sleeve! My thought is that some of what I am counting may not be counted, If I know for sure I can add more to the mix!

As to the Bus fare-I would probably send you a buddy pass instead and pick your brain to the point you would want to go back to work!

Unfortunately, everything is still in boxes! Almost 90% of what I have taken off is restored or has been replaced with NOS and ready to be put back, but the sheet metal has hardly been touched(other than all of the rust has been cut out and new panels welded in.)

Will

Ps thanks for your thoughts Kats- the sticker story you posted told me alot as well!

Will

[TomoHawk]

Other than a right side mirror (required in your State for a vehicle over 25yrs old?), there is nothing on that list that is required by any MVD that I am aware of. They are options an owner might want to add but may or may not be stock (AT was). So I am again confused by this concern on your part.

No, it's not required for regular people, but if you have a visual disability, yuo may have that or other requirements. If you were an arm amputee, youd be restricted to an automatic trans, or if a leg amputee, some hand controls.

[TomoHawk]

There was a good example of group decuctions in the rules document.

If you change from the 240Z stock steel wheels to ZX aluminum ones, you'd get two deductions: 1 for the wheels, and one for the lug nuts. Too bad you can't keep the acorn nuts with the aliminum wheels.

A coyuple years I was hit for "non-working glovebox lamp. It did work, but the judge didn'tknow about turning the lights on first. I also once got a decuction for the 'non-stock radio?' And I was in DD class! It was professionally installed.

You weren't allowed to ask for specifics. that's the other thing I would like to change ( add a specific note about what the decuction was for.)

thx

[TomoHawk]

I would be satisfied with the rules if you could get a dispensation if you had legally-required equipment on-board. You'd simply show the judges the paper, and they'll have to overlook that one thing.

I'd need some help to do the arm-twisting. Someone with pull or favourable contacts.

thx

[gnosez]

Kat - I judged your car at the Vegas convention and remember it well. Do you remember what was in your center console ashtray?

Your comment about taking time to concentrate on the items that judges pay attention to is a very good one. If you look at the judging sheet for "engine & engine compartment" you will see that there are no line items for such things as clutch master cylinder, transmission, speedo cable, or the windshield washer bottle/pump/hoses. None of these are considered when the car is judged.

For the "interior", judges will not look at the spare tire or in the two tool boxes. Nor will a judge check to see if you have a 4-spd vs a 5-spd (when you should have a 4-spd in a "stock" 240). Seat belts are also not listed. The rear hatch shocks are not included either. There have been issues with gloveboxes being locked and if the owner can not be found in a timely manner a 10 point deduction has been given since a judge can not verify its' condition. Many shows make a pre-show announcement requesting permission for judges to open (and close) gloveboxes, gas lids, etc.

On the "exterior" list, I always leave my antenna all the way down. The only portion I need to detail is the top and mounting cup. Nearly 100% of the exterior is subject to judging (as I believe it should be).

Now, Tomohawk wanted to now about detailing secrets for an S30 so here goes:

There are none. Repeat, none.

I'm not talking about having points deduced for a part that isn't OEM "stock" such as a fiberglass fan shroud (instead of a metal one) on a Series I 240, I'm talking detailing.

Whatever you would do to get a VW, Corvair, Mustang, or Civic (shudder) ready for a car show is the same thing you do for a Z. If you think it's clean enough you most likely need to do another 10 hours getting it better. I spend 3 hours mounting a set of pedal covers on an ultra mod car (gold medal winner-not mine) that already had a nice set on it. I mounted a similar set on my car in under 30 minutes. I won the Mr. K award and missed a gold medal by 2-pts (290 is the cut-off). I left wax and wheel polish on the entire right side of my Z (I was running the car show and got called away before I could finish.).

You need a team. You need cleaning supplies and different length Q-Tips, knee pads, a mirror. Money and a whole lotta time.

I can however tell you what judges look for (I have taught the judging course 3 times in the past 6 years). Here's a few:

1) pedals - wear on these is easy to spot (just as easy to replace). Paint the bloody arms.

2) brake booster/MC - rusted bolts/nuts, caps dirty. Clean, replace or paint.

3) battery - corrosion, rust, dirt, grime, mashed terminal ends. Replace, clean, cover.

4) dash - scratched, dirty gauge lenses. Replace, clean.

5) glovebox/ashtray - junk, ashes, dirt, coins, candy wrappers. Clean, replate ashtray.

6) engine bay (general) - grime, dirt, rust, oil, paint overspray, damaged labels (better to take them all off if not in stock class). Clean, scrape, paint.

7) radiator - insects, clamps dirty, fins mis-aligned, fan dirty, nicked. Clean, paint, align, replace.

Going for a "gold medal"? Buy thousands of dollars of new parts and then spend hundreds of hours cleaning everything you don't replace. Ask Charlie Osborne or Paul Gasparola how much they put into their award winning Zs. That's the secret.

But if you're just going to a car show, clean and replace what you and your wallet can handle. Look at the other cars in your class. Talk with the owners. And remember, purchased in bulk most trophies run about $8. a piece, so put this whole thing into some sort of perspective.

[Arne]

While I understand the sentiment, Tomo, I don't agree with you. Not for the stock class. Cars in the stock class are supposed to be stock. Many of them are not driven at all, other than off the trailer. If you are required to have certain equipment added to your car by law because of a disablity of some sort, to me that makes the car a daily driver anyway, and no longer stock.

Shoot, for my red '71 I've got steel wheels, D caps, AM radio, cloth-covered hoses, dated plug wires, Koito headlights, metal fan, all of it. But it'd never fly in stock class due to the sunroof which the previous owners swear was installed by the dealer before it was sold. Oh well.

Worse, I'm driving it. It turned over 60,000 miles a few weeks ago. I put 240 miles on it just last weekend. It gets driven in the rain now and then. Heavens!! I'm wearing it out!!

Which - in my opinion - is exactly as it should be.