Resto help/direction please!

[astrohog]

Hey all! I have a '71 240Z (10/70 build). I bought it in August 2006. It has 102,000 orig. miles and I am the fourth owner. The second and third owner probably only put a total of a couple thousand miles on her combined. The original owner was at least a Z enthusiast as he was a member of the ZCCA. It came from the factory painted silver and the original owner had her painted red (NOT a quality paint job, but good enough to keep her mostly protected from the elements.)

I want to start at least a "refresh", but I do not like to half-arse anything so I am having a hard time deciding how far to go with it. I really want to keep the "vintage-stock" feel to her, but also want to have some performance/modern amenities as well. I very much appreciate the history of these cars and am all for keeping as many on the road and original as possible. At what point do I decide wether this car is a nice enough (early enough??) example to keep her completely stock? I would hate to think that I did anything to a classic car that would greatly reduce her value/collectibility.

Also, I live in the Northwest where it is WET. When I get ready to do rust repair and new paint, how far should I strip her down? I would LOVE to be able to completely strip her and do the rotisserie thing so as to end up with a basically "new" and completely rust-protected car. If I thouroughly check her out and attack all known cancerous areas, is it possible to get ALL the potential rust and still get it all sealed well enough so I won't have to do this again in, say 7-10 years?

I would LOVE to be able to do a complete, concours-quality stock resto, but don't think I have the time or $$ to see it through.

when I am refreshing her, if I want to replace, say the "diamond" vinyl...Is the stuff that is available considered by "purists" to be an acceptable replacement for the stock stuff? My original diamond vinyl is okay right now, but am afraid that as I start cleaning her up and digging for rust that it may crack, tear or whatever. Should I be afraid of hurting the stock stuff, or is the replacement stuff good enough that I do not need to worry? The same goes for the seat covers...are the replacements good enough, or would there be a significant premium put on the fact that they are all original?

I know I am a worry-wart, but would very much appreciate all your feedback!! I hope I have portrayed my sitation so y'all understand what I am asking here.

Also, I think I want to paint her back to silver, but would really prefer a more "modern" silver such as the VW/Audi silver. Will this be severely frowned upon by most Z enthusiasts? (or only the true purists?) How about if I added two black stripes to the silver ala "rally stripes"?

I really value all the opinions I read here on this site, so speak up!!!!

Regards,

Astrohog

[beandip]

Well astrohog, you covered a lot of territory in this post . The 240s are all collectible and like any car , the fewer there are the more valuable they become . If you have notions of restoration to concurs condition this is about a 20K endeavor. Any variation from original will be points off. Down to and including the bolts and nuts and washers. The concours cars are not driven. Think time capsule. In doing a refresh do attack the rust as it will never stop advancing if you don't. The diamond covering and seat covers are available from aftermarket sources like Motorsport and Black diamond , To Intense Restorations. If you are thinking of your Z as an investment then keep it completely stock and do a restoration. If you wish to drive the Z then do a refresh and do it for you. I did a refresh on mine . Took her down to a rolling shell , one step from a rotisserie . I painted a '05 Ford yellow ''screaming yellow''. I added a '82ZX engine and a R-200 diff. The exterior and interior is as original accept for the early bumpers and all the rubber has been removed from them as will as the guards. I had to replace the windshield so that is no longer Nissan . I have treated and done rust repair and sealed the car as completely as I could . I drive in the rain but not as a daily driver. When the nasty weather comes she stays in the garage. I live in the wet as you do, Portland . Gary

[Ed]

You can start by refurbishing your suspension components. Replace those old worn out bushings and shocks. Clean and repaint A arms and strut tubes. This will give you a solid foundation to do whatever you choose and it will give you time to figure out what you want to do. If you decide to do any kind of restoration down the road your suspension will already be done.

Also start buying parts now.

[hls30.com]

When you cant make up your mind, the best thing to do is start with what both options will require-get rid of the rust!!

While you are doing that, consider this-as Gary pointed out:

If you build a stock class show car, she will be beautiful. She will be at her most valuable, but she probably won't be driven very much, as every spec of dust will have to come off before a show.

If you build her for your enjoyment, you still can keep her just as clean, but she will put a smile on your face much more often than the occasional show, You will be able to build history with her, and not dedicate her to preserving it.

I am building a mildly modified car that is already entered in the Daytona show. It will be a drivers car, it is made mostly by me completely for me. It will have most of the things I love about a 240Z slightly accentuated, and most of the things I am not so happy with in a 240Z modified out, and a few things the 240Z didn't have. All of the work I put into this car goes to satisfy me-and if somome else likes my work-Wonderful! If they don't, that's OK too.

In a Stock class car, there will be no room for changes, so if the 240Z isn't mighty close you your view of perfection, it becomes a matter of building a 1/1 model of a 30something year old car that should look almost exactly like every other 240z of the same year in the stock class.

Having said that, I plan to do one too-but after I enjoy this one for a while, and find the right car to truely restore.

Will

[JLPurcell]

when I am refreshing her, if I want to replace, say the "diamond" vinyl...Is the stuff that is available considered by "purists" to be an acceptable replacement for the stock stuff? My original diamond vinyl is okay right now, but am afraid that as I start cleaning her up and digging for rust that it may crack, tear or whatever. Should I be afraid of hurting the stock stuff, or is the replacement stuff good enough that I do not need to worry? The same goes for the seat covers...are the replacements good enough, or would there be a significant premium put on the fact that they are all original?

Some folks have gone to great lengths to provide great replacement parts such as vinyl interior parts. You can get a lot of what you’re looking for from Les Cannaday (Classic Datsun Motorsports). He is also a wealth of information on restoration. After many years of procrastination on the restoration of my 72 and many discussions with Les, I decided to just have him do my restoration. But he can be of help at all levels with correct parts and information for your restoration. I agree with starting with the suspension components strip them down have them powder coated and install new bushings and work you way through the rust, paint, mechanics and interior. Good luck and keep us posted.

Here is a link to Classic Datsun Motorsports;

http://www.classicdatsun.com/

[nwcubsman]

You have been advised well, to get rid of all rust. But, that doesn't mean you have to strip all of the paint. If the "NOT a quality paint job" adheres well, just paint over it. The quality of prep work will determine the quality of finish. Suspension is something you can do in a couple of weekends depending on your level of cleanup. I bead blasted mine and PORed it, so it took me longer. (Everything seems to take me longer) But, I'm learning as I go. They are basic cars so for most people these things are doable, and enjoyable. I'm fortunate that I have competent friends to help, and advise. You know who you are, thanks!

Enjoy the car, meet some new Z car friends. Most of us are pretty good people.

[astrohog]

Thanks for the replies, all! After reading your responses, I realized that what I really needed was advice on where to start my refresh.

I have done enough research to be aware of all the "quality" places out there that offer us enthusiasts help and support and parts for our early Z's. I am also fortunate to have an Uncle and Cousin close by that have had early Z's/Datsuns since I can remember! I also joined the ZCCW last year (I have not joined this year, but will) and been to their big meet in Port Townsend last August. What a GREAT event and good group of guys and gals!!! I am hoping to meet some of you Oregon guys there this August, right???

A couple of you mentioned starting with the suspension components. As I do not have a garage/shop here at home, any work I do will be in borrowed space away from home so I figure any work I do myself will take 2 -3 times aas long as it would if it were here. I am considering having the local Z specialist do some or all of the work and I also have a good friend here who wants to do the bodywork/paint.

How about a list/timeline from you experts about what order to do proceed on a refresh?

This is what I have come up with as far as what I have to start with and what I want from my Z when it is complete:

-I am starting with a 1971 240Z, (build 10/70), HLS30 16,9_ _ _

- all #'s match, it is all original, no cracks on orig dash, and is a reliable driver.

Here are the things I want to do to her:

- get rid of all rust and protect from future rust as much as possible. (my car was at the ZCCW "Meeting of the Mindz" event Aug. 2006 @ Port Townsend, WA and many of the guys there said I had a VERY NICE example with very little rust. (some rocker panel/dogleg rust and some in the rear valance (under the rear hatch) but NOTHING structural and not "cancerous".

- upgrade/tighten the suspension for a more comfortable/sporty ride (NOT racing stiff

- re-upholster/re-foam the seats

- new carpet

- return to silver, but I think I will deviate from the stock silver to one that I really like and possibly do the "rally stripe" thing.

-Thinking possibly pulling,crating and keeping the L24(#'s match, remember) and swapping a mildly built L28 (200 h.p. maybe?)

- and, of course, wheels and tires, modern stereo.

Any advice you guys can give as far as what order to do all of this would be great as I have never really done a refresh/resto before. OH YEAH, As the weather is getting nicer here in the NW, I would like to be able to drive her a little bit here and there and maybe get to a couple local drives/events. Is it unreasonable to expect to get the work done and still have her available (at least intermitently) to drive? Or should I get my money and parts together and JUST DO IT until it is done?

Thanks again all for your help!!!!

AM I GONNA SEE THE OREGON GUYS AT PORT TOWNSEND THIS AUGUST?????

regards,

Astrohog

[Arne]

This is what I have come up with as far as what I have to start with and what I want from my Z when it is complete:

-I am starting with a 1971 240Z, (build 10/70), HLS30 16,9_ _ _

- all #'s match, it is all original, no cracks on orig dash, and is a reliable driver.

Here are the things I want to do to her:

- get rid of all rust and protect from future rust as much as possible. (my car was at the ZCCW "Meeting of the Mindz" event Aug. 2006 @ Port Townsend, WA and many of the guys there said I had a VERY NICE example with very little rust. (some rocker panel/dogleg rust and some in the rear valance (under the rear hatch) but NOTHING structural and not "cancerous".

- upgrade/tighten the suspension for a more comfortable/sporty ride (NOT racing stiff

- re-upholster/re-foam the seats

- new carpet

- return to silver, but I think I will deviate from the stock silver to one that I really like and possibly do the "rally stripe" thing.

-Thinking possibly pulling,crating and keeping the L24(#'s match, remember) and swapping a mildly built L28 (200 h.p. maybe?)

- and, of course, wheels and tires, modern stereo.

Any advice you guys can give as far as what order to do all of this would be great as I have never really done a refresh/resto before. OH YEAH, As the weather is getting nicer here in the NW, I would like to be able to drive her a little bit here and there and maybe get to a couple local drives/events. Is it unreasonable to expect to get the work done and still have her available (at least intermitently) to drive? Or should I get my money and parts together and JUST DO IT until it is done?

Thanks again all for your help!!!!

AM I GONNA SEE THE OREGON GUYS AT PORT TOWNSEND THIS AUGUST?????

Last question first - a firm "maybe". Late August is a hard time for me to get time off, as I work in K-12 education and school is preparing to start. But we might make it anyway.

As to the order you do it in, that's kinda up to you. If it were me, and assuming it is still running OK now, I'd do the rust/paint first, then the interior stuff. Suspension can be done pretty much whenever, but if you do it after the paint you will be able to fix any overspray than may have snuck in.

For better suspension, you may want to look at what beandip has on his, cut-down Euro-spec springs and KYB shocks. I haven't ridden in it yet, but he describes it as being a good compromise.

As for color and stripes, I doubt that changing to a slightly different shade of silver will cause any hand-wringing. And stripes can really look good on silver. But remember that painting the stripes is a one-way ticket, and if you should ever have to sell it later the stripes may seriously detract for many purchasers.

I'd do the engine swap last. Make it a good-looking, solid and fun driver first, then go for the performance stuff.

[Ramses]

I agree with ED. I finished the refresh on the body and interior of my '73 and ran out of money. With a divorce, I do not have the time or the space to finish her. She is parked right now because she needs to have the suspension and drive train redone. When I hit a big enough bump the rear wheels hit the fenders and are starting to show wear on them. I tried to sell her, but did not get what I wanted, so she will sit for now and get started only occasionally till I have the time, money and space for replacing the springs, struts, shocks, bushings, u-joints and what ever needs to be replaced.

[hls30.com]

You might purchase a second set of suspension components to keep the down time to a minumum, and to allow you to complete small bites of the project every week(keeps momentum, pride, and the project going!).

That way too, you have the ability to keep the car whole and on the road except for a couple of hours to pull and replace the suspension...

This part keeps everything neet, neighbors(or workspace owners) happy, and yet you get to keep a sense of accomplishment!

Almost every part of the restoration can be done this way-and If you have a fellow club member with a parts car, you may not have to buy used parts to refurbish. If I didn't have a garage, that is what I would do.

WIll

[ktm]

You asked for a timeline and I can tell you what I recently spent simply refurbishing my brakes and suspension: 6 months up in the air. I stripped all the aftermarket and factory undercoating off the wheel wells, replaced all the bushings with polyurethene, stripped and painted all the suspension components (control arms, front crossmember, struts, hubs, etc.), installed remaned calipers, tokico shocks and struts, new to me differential, new to me 4-speed, new Powerslot rotors, etc., etc. My resources are not limited, I can only work on the car an 1 to 2 hours a night and maybe 3 to 5 on the weekend.

Unless you have the space to do the work or can leave the car where ever you are working on it for an extended period of time, I would not do a fullblown refresh. It takes quite a bit of time to do it right. hls30 has a good idea about buying a spare set of parts, however, that does add up quickly. If you decide to go that route, Roger at Zbarn.com is a great resource.

Hell, I just got her back on the ground in January (was on stands in July) and she blew a head gasket/cracked-warped the head. She is now back up on stands as I am now building up an L28ET.

Good luck on whatever you decide to do.