72 on ebay

[Carl Beck]

It's hard to say the condition but somebody believed it was pristeen. Last bid was 12,000 and didn't make the reserve.

I would have bid but I needed to see more of the car first.

Hi Sailor Bob (everyone):

I'd say that someone believed that the car "could be put in pristine condition."

Put in #2 Condition - an all original 72 240-Z, with documented 37K miles - will sell in the $25K range. I know of at least three that have traded hands within this past year at these levels.

My advice to a local person, who knew the person that was handling the sale - was at most the car was worth $12K as it sat (and if no attempt to get the car running was made). Then he could plan to spend a year and another 4K or $5K to put the car in the shape it should be.

That assumed that the paint was still in good condition and could be simply cleaned up and polished, the undercarriage was fine etc. So for $16K or $17K and a lot of work - he'd have a very nice, very original and very low mileage 72.

I think the seller has been offered top dollar for the car as it currently sits...

Interesting interview in the Hagerty's Volume 2, Number 1 "Block Party"

Page 19.

Speaking about the future of the Collector Hobby -

Donald Osborne says: ,,,,,, "Another trend is the newfound interest in "original" cars. Unrestored cars have become more desired as there's no going back once they have been altered. Once, if a collector had a very original car, it was viewed merely as the starting point for a full restoration. Now that same owner is challenged not to touch it at all.

There is a growing gap between historic cars that have undergone full restorations - - or cars that are well-preserved and documented original condition - - and more common cars with needs. This is true at all levels of collecting from common English sports cars to major classics, but it is especially seen at the top end."

and:

"Now that they are getting rarer and harder to find, original cars are even more appreciated" says David Gooding. "People are realizing that shinny isn't always the best. The cars that have never been touched have a lot to say."

FWIW,

Carl B.

[Arne]

Interesting thoughts, Carl. And it definitely could be what we're starting to see here. I'm just glad I found mine locally and didn't have to fight on eBay for it.

[=Enigma=]

I really like the idea of an original car myself. This is the main reason I am planning on keeping mine mostly stock, save some performance and safety upgrades. The temptation is huge to go all out but so far, all I'm doing is refreshing the suspension and adding some wheels and tires. I plan on keeping the original paint as long as I can, although it's going to need a re-spray along the rocker panels and wheel well lips due to excessive rock chips. The P.O. must have lived in an area with a gravel road or something because the damage it pretty extensive. You can see some of it in my gallery but it's hard to see unless you're up close and personal. I was thinking of doing something like Enrique did but I'm not sure I like the two-tone look all that much.

[76Datsun280z]

Hmm. Since I'm more interested in driving a 240Z than collecting or showing it, maybe I should finish my yellow car as a driver after all, and then sell the red car? I might be able to make a tidy sum on it, the way things are going on eBay lately.

If I were you, I'd keep the red car! That's pretty special to have such a low mileage car and such.

My 280 is pretty much stock other than the air dam on it, the wheels and the paint will be a different shade of silver and I'll pretty much keep it that way I think.

[JLPurcell]

Hi Sailor Bob (everyone):

I'd say that someone believed that the car "could be put in pristine condition."

Carl B.

Carl,

I agree with you.

I emailed the person who listed the car last week and basically said I could not bid any higher unless a few questions were answered. Not being able to lay hands or eyes on the car, I felt he should be ready to answer a few questions.

First could he document the miles? It may just be the photo but the steering wheel looks to have a lot of wear for a 36K car. I also asked if the car had been or could be started and moved to be shipped.

The person having listed the car said he would have the owner call, no call, until just a few minutes ago. (the auction has ended)

I also just received an email from the owner offering the car for $13,150. Once again, if as represented the car could be worth the money. But it is more than I would be willing to pay without some confirmation of the cars condition and history. JLP

[rtaylor]

This almost makes me not want to drive mine at all with 26,000 miles, and just keep it in the garage. But that will not happen, I'll just have to insure I don't rack up alot of miles.

[=Enigma=]

This almost makes me not want to drive mine at all with 26,000 miles, and just keep it in the garage. But that will not happen, I'll just have to insure I don't rack up alot of miles.

I guess it all depends on why you bought the car, and what you enjoy most. Making a profit, or enjoying it while doing what is was designed for. You could always swap in a replacement motor and drive the wizz out of it without worrying about miles. I know there are other parts to consider, but most of them can be replaced acceptably or even temporarily.

[Sailor Bob]

I have to say the idea of a car without personal alterations really appeals to me, so I understand where the prices are going, BUT I could not possibly take that kind of a financial shot with out some more details on condition.

I also contacted the person listing with a request for info and additional pictures. The pictures didn't show (typical trouble spot pictures) and I was uncertain about the answer to one of the questions. I asked why there was no window trim on the windshield, he told me there never was any. Perhaps somebody can pony up an insight on that comment.

I wrote him a third time and told him it was impossible for me to bid with out my requests being answered - no reply.

At this point I would like to see the pics anyway even if it is out of reach (for now). I can see paying 15K for a nice #2 that was drivable. How much would it cost for an equivelent modern vehicle - probably 30k or more and it wouldn't give off that Z thing.

[jonathanrussell]

It has been funny watching this conversation. I was one of the two guys bidding on this car. How many unrusted, unwrecked/repaired, original paint, low miles 240z's do you think there are? A few hundred max? It was fun. I wish I could buy the car. No regrets at my final bid.

[Carl Beck]

Carl,

I agree with you.

I emailed the person who listed the car last week and basically said I could not bid any higher unless a few questions were answered. Not being able to lay hands or eyes on the car, I felt he should be ready to answer a few questions.

First could he document the miles? It may just be the photo but the steering wheel looks to have a lot of wear for a 36K car. I also asked if the car had been or could be started and moved to be shipped.

Hi Jerry:

Agreed - documentation on the miles, via State Vehicle Inspections, Service Invoices over time etc. would be an important part of the deal. This is supposed to be the original owner as well - so original bill of sale, window sticker, Service/Warranty Card etc would also be expected to be on hand.

My advice to the seller - via the friend of the friend.. was to NOT ATTEMPT, NOR ALLOW ANYONE ELSE TO ATTEMPT to start the car. That should only be done by the future owner. Have some yahoo crank that car over and it could do very serious and expensive and time consuming damage at this point.

I believe that any serious buyers - would want to wake this sleeping beauty up in a very methodical and careful manor. Done right, given the States in which the car had been stored - it would be good as new again. Done wrong - and you'd have a prolonged mess on your hands...

Fly out there and inspect the car (round trip in a day is easy from your location) - if it checks out completely - Send a truck to pick it up - Air the tires up - push it on a trailer... and bring it home.... What the hell - there is no real difference between $12K and $13K in todays dollars - that's like $1,200.00 or $1,300.00 when the car was new!! If there is anything that turns out to be NOT as represented.. offer the seller a reasonably reduced amount of CASH on the spot...

FWIW,

Carl B.

[Carl Beck]

I can see paying 15K for a nice #2 that was drivable. How much would it cost for an equivelent modern vehicle - probably 30k or more and it wouldn't give off that Z thing.

Hi Sailor:

Just so I'm sure we are talking about the same condition definitions for vehicles... I've copied/pasted the Kruse Value Guide Definitions below.

A nice #2 condition 240-Z as outlined by Kruse - would sell today for $25K or more. Granted one might run across a distressed seller - that needed fast cash - and pick up a true #2 condition car for $15k to $18K... but that's a matter of luck and you don't see it happening too much now.

I do agree - I'd sure be a buyer for any #2 condition 240-Z at $15K

IMHO - the best bargain in a new sports car now is the Pontiac Soltice GP-X - turbo with 260HP in a 2800lb roadster - for $28K... hard to beat. However every year that new car will depreciate - while that old Z will be appreciating and that is the MAJOR difference... besides the Z is still far more attractive and offers far more utility - not to mention just plain fun to drive...

FWIW,

Carl B.

Keep in mind these are condition definitions for CLASSIC CARS! .. not just 240-Z's in their current use..

#1 EXCELLENT - Restored to current maximum professional standards of quality in every area, or perfect original with components operating and appearing as new. A 95+ point show car that is not driven.

In national show judging a car in #1 condition is likely to win top honors in it's class. In a sense it has ceased to be an automobile and has become an object of art. It is transported to shows in an enclosed trailer, and, when not being shown it is stored in a climate controlled facility. It is not driven. There are very few #1 cars.

#2 FINE: - Well-restored, or a combination of superior restoration and excellent original. Also an extremely well maintained original showing very minimal wear.

Except for the very closest of inspection a #2 vehicle may appear as a #1. The #2 vehicle will take the top award in many judged shows, except when squared off against a #1 example in its own class. It may also be driven 800 - 1,000 miles each year to shows, on tours, and simply for pleasure.

#3 - Very Good: Completely operable original or "older restoration" showing

wear. Also, a good amateur restoration, all presentable and serviceable

inside and out. Plus combinations of well-done restoration and good

operable components; or a partially restored car with all parts necessary

to complete it and/or valuable NOS parts.

[Arne]

I don't know, I'm still questioning this. Let's assume that the car in question does check out. Mileage documentation, papers, structural condition, etc.

In that case we're saying that it is worth $12-13k in its present condition? If so, what does that make Randy's 26,000 mile '71 worth in nice, drivable condition? $20k maybe? Or even my red '71 with 60,000 miles and all original save for the sunroof? I figure my red '71 is a 2.5 on that scale - better than a 3, but not quite up to #2 standards yet. And there's still the sunroof in mine to draw the value down. (I've come to accept the sunroof now, but there is still the possibility that I will have the roof replaced when I paint it some day.) So maybe $15k for mine? I don't know, seems to me I'd have to get a bit lucky to get $15k for it.

But maybe I still haven't come to grips with this stuff yet. Obviously more than one person thinks that car had value, or it would never have been bid up that far.