front-end camber ?'s

[Dave Sommers]

Kmack,

I assume you already looked to make sure you don't have a slightly bent lower control arm or any damage to the other components. It doesn't take much to make that 1 degree and a slightly bent control arm would do it. Give it all a careful look and don't overlook the inner bushing or the T/C assembly either. Also exam the rubber mount at the top of the strut as they can fail - it's rare but possible.

It is obvious something isn't right and if you have no damage to the bodywork, then something in the suspension is slightly off. Good luck on this one.

[kmack]

Well, thanks to 2many I have begun to install a set of adjustable camber bushings.

I have checked the strut tubes, control arms, and tension rods and all are straight. I haven't checked the strut towers themselves, but will after this weekend.

Let me tell you, getting those old stock bushings out of the control arms w/o a press is a real b*tch! :tapemouth

That's the reason I've only done one so far.... I'll keep everyone posted on any further findings....

[smg1404]

I used to run the aluminum offset bushings. I loved them. I used to run with the top of the wheel set 1/8" to 1/4 " further in than the bottom. This did make my tires wear faster in the middle, but I cornered very well, which was my greatest concern.

[kmack]

Well, I finally got around to pulling the passenger side control off tonight (after pulling the driver's side out last Thursday). Here's what I found out:

When measuring the overall length of the control arms, the drivers side is about 1/4" shorter than the passenger side. For what reason I don't know. There are no signs of either piece having any damage at all. So my only explanation is that either the factory goofed or at some point one was changed and there is apparently different lengths running around between models.

Anybody care to help shed some light on this?

FWIW, the drivers side (measured across the top from end to end) is 13-1/2", pass. side is 13-3/4".

[kmack]

Well here is the latest and probably last update on the camber issue.....

I layed out the control arms on the floor and transferred them with a marker. Then I measured from the center of the crossmember bolt-line to both the radius arm mounting holes, and the ball-joint mounting holes. All dimensions on both pieces came within 1/8". So much for my odd-ball control arm theory.

I have measured the strut towers (cross-pattern) and they both come out to be the same dimensions there. So they are straight. The only thing I haven't done is measure their vertical angles, but the cross-pattern measuring should have taken care of that.

I went ahead and mounted the camber bushings and installed everything and I'll deal with any adjustment limitations later on. I'm tired of messing with this and I'm missing being able to drive my car.

[spudz]

Hey Ken,

I have the opposite problem you have.

I have excess negative camber. I wore

out a set of tires in about 3K. It was

pretty scary when I corded a front tire

on the way to an autocross.

I will be replacing all the bushings

and stuff before putting in camber plates

and coil overs.

[2-77zs]

Please keep in mind I am completely devoid of Zed knowledge. Having that said, I'm also a certified Master Carpenter and often times have to find DDC on many flexable and mobile structures.

To measure any still object, I would have simply leveled the "load bearing" which in this case would have been the front and back lateral of the car. Placed 2 plumb bobs equal distances on both sides of any fixed point of the vehicle.

Triangulated measuements from any fixed point of a level surface beneathe the car, (an x drawn on the floor of the garage). Since the bobs draw exactly to the center of the earth, (at every second of the earths roation) you will always be able to measure exact DDC of any fixed point, of any object on the car you wish to measure.

Math wont lie, do your deductions, add the wheels being certain that all lugs are seated properly, and measure again. Bada bing bada boom, you have DDC on any part of your car.

My physics background may have just run away with me. But it would work to within a .05 degree measurement, which is very close.

Please forgive the intrusion, I'll go back to learning from you all now.

Thanks so much to all that have helped me thus far, I continue to appreciate your assistance.

[spudz]

I agree that the plumb bob and triangulation

works great, and its used on a few chassis

adjustments on cars. I can't imagine getting

underneath my car and trying to set one up.

I have about 5" from body panel to ground

with my race tires on , and the frame

rails sit a bit lower then that. I think my

plumb bob is about 3" long. It would be a very tight fit under there.

I am really just starting to get into the

math portion of the suspension .It does help

that the SO is a math major.

[2-77zs]

Do you know of a Z club in the northwest?

I'm in Utah and travel to Idaho often.

(you would have to suspend the car level, (jacks, mounts)

[spudz]

The only thing I don't like when putting it

on stands as that you are getting the same

corner loads as you would by sitting it on

the tires. Different load angles would change

some of the numbers, but in Kmacks case it would

have worked fine because he was just trying to

prove if one arm was longer then the other.

The only Z club I know about in the Northwest

is the Washington one out of Seattle. They

have three up in Canada , but none that I know

of in the Southern Idaho , Northern Utah area.

I am way up in Coeur d' Alene and pretty much

hang around with the local Z and Datsun guys.

We have tons of them up here. I know of a couple

of guys in Southern Idaho and Utah that have Z's.

Mike said he would host a club forum for any of us

who were interested. Let me know if we should do

a Inland Northwest forum.

[Ed]

To me it sounds like you have looked at your suspension parts and so far it all looks O.K. The problem has to be in the body. Some time in the car's history it probably either got hit or it hit something. I've seen cars that had a direct impact on the front suspension at a 90 degree angle. All the suspension looks good but the body is out of alignment. Only a frame alignment shop with lazer pointers that are capable of micro measurements can tell. Don't waste your time taking it to Pep Boys. You have to go to a body shop that specializes in unibody repairs.