Datsun-240z Vs Fairlady-z432

[Carl Beck]

Hi Kats:

As always, very interesting. Do you have captions, for the pictures of Mr. Miyazaki? Is that him standing by the Z's and 510? What year was it taken?

As I understand it - the conflict between the former Prince employees (Skyline Group?) and Nissan employees (Z Group?) continued far into the 90's. More understandable now, if Nissan used Prince's engine for the 432, but not the people that developed it, it would cause some hard feelings.

It is a shame that Nissan Management allowed the two groups to compete within the corporation for so many years. Mass production and the sale of the Skylines in the US might have added significantly to the NISSAN brand here, as well as adding sorely needed revenue.

The story is that when Renault took over - the Skyline group was finally forced to join the rest of the Nissan line-up. Of course the RB engine plant was shut down, the Nissan Competition Dept. in the USA was consolidated into the overall NISMO umbrella etc. So we might finally see the new Skylines sold here in the US.

Of course with the very cheap cars predicted by Carlos and Toyota coming from China, we might well see the "DATSUN" brand brought back to the States as well. They are all saying a new car will be about $6K in the near future....

As a side note - seeing the 510 in the picture you Posted and speaking of the return of DATSUN, here is a picture of my latest Datsun - a 1972 510 Station Wagon! It has about 200K miles, is mostly all original, and runs like a top. The original engine has never been taken apart, and with the exception of the hood, left front fender and door - the paint is all original. I'm the third owner now. As much fun to drive today as it was in 1972.

regards,

Carl B.

[Carl Beck]

Hi Kats:

Oh by the way - the reason I ask about finding and restoring some of the 240-Z's that were raced by either the Factory Backed Teams or Private Teams in Japan; was because it would seem that some of them should still be around, and maybe not as sought after as the 432's have been so far. Might be a good time to find one of them to buy and restore.

Brian Long lists 16 races as "Notable outright victories in Japan" between 4/70 and 4/75. After the 240-Z was introduced into the competition in 7/70 the 240-Z's won 10 of the remaining 14.

3 Drivers are listed for the four 432 victories, but 6 different drivers are listed for the 240-Z's 10 victories - so it would seem that given the larger number of drivers, if not cars - some of the 240-Z's would have been located and restored to their historic spec.'s by now.

Does Nissan have any in their collection in Japan? Have you located any of the original Drivers? As you know several of the noteworthy Drivers of the early Z's are still active in the Z Car Community here in the States and several of the early Championship cars are being or have been restored.

<a href=http://www.canepa.com/inventory/racecar/240z.html TARGET=NEW>Brad Frisselle's IMSA GTU Championship Z</a> The "asking" price is $275K

regards,

Carl B.

[26th-Z]

Carl,

The basic answer to your question is yes, they are still around, in private collections, sometimes shown and driven, and highly sought after.

Chris

[=Enigma=]

Hey that thing was rebuilt in my back yard. I used to live in Scotts Valley. Now I'm going to have to find some time to stop by and ogle it.

[daddz]

Hi,

pictures of the dash and tach.

44 12 26 (26 Dec 1969) for the dash,

15 11, 9, (15 Nov 1969) for the tach.

kats

kats,

Words cannot express my amazement at that Z432. What a beautiful example of how these cars should be preserved and presented. Is there any chance you will bring either or both of these cars to Daytona later this year? If not Hosomi-san may need some help as he is planning to drive two cars to the convention.

Thanks again for the soundtrack.

Is there any explanation as to how the Showa date is in a slightly different format for the tachomoeter versus the typical format as on the back of the dashboard?

BTW,

I have been meaning to communiccate my latest Showa date finding in a late S30 or S31 chassis as you would refer to it in Japan. I removed the carpeting recently from my '78 280Z and on the back of the carpet was a Showa date stamped and clearly legible. The question is would this date also be found on the back of the carpeting in a 240Z?

[kats]

Hello all,

Carl,there are some S30 famous drivers still can ride in the restored/original or replica S30 in Japan.We can see both(Zs and drivers) at Nismo festival every year.Alan reported very well some time ago with pictures.

But I have not seen the very first Z432-Rs which run at the race in 1970 nor the very first 240Z (in 1970,Japanese market did not have 240Z yet.But RHD shell powered with L24,I think it is not just HS30 for export.432-R shell with L24 I guess) running at the festival.

daddz,thank you always,I want to bring my Z again but,I do not know when can I do again.My dream is two Zs from Japan are driven by me and my son across in the U.S. I will need to take a few months vacation:)

I have not thought about format of date stamp,it is interesting.Let's gather as many as possible,then we can see some trends.I wish I could have chance to see the original carpet!

I drove Z432 1000 miles in two days.That was very fun to travel.

That days were very fine,strong sun shine and temp rose like summer.

So many bugs sticked on the front section,but Z432 was always fun to drive.

Now Z432 is sitting next to the 240Z,I have just started comparing generally and precisely each other.

kats

[kats]

Hi,

I intentionaly remain original early choke plate,because NOS one is available but there are "ON" on the face,it is slightly later one.I painted it by my self(left one)

Also I intentionaly not replace the seats,they are very nice as 37 years old.

I am always saying the difference of shape of the seat back.This early(possible DEC 1969 or Jan 1970 made)seat remains its good shape.I love that.Two plastic side guards are came with.

The two dove tails are very very rare now,they are very easy to crack.How many Zs are still equiped with these early thin parts?They are the originals,Z432 got NOS for right and left.They are not interchangable.

Plastic hook for the seat belt is different from 1971- model.But I know more earlier hook is metal core and rubber dipped.We can say Jan 1970 has plastic small hook as a second version,can't we?

Also,I noticed Japanese Z has hook on the very upper side of the seat back.Almost near our year when we sit.Looking at U.S. Z,the hook on the middle of the seat back.Near our shoulder.Only very very early Japanese Z like on the brouchure has same location like U.S. Z. I have never seen shoulder location except 1969 Z in Japan.

I collected all metal emblems for Z432 like my 240Z."432" is still available at local Nissan but they are plastic.You can see the difference between "DATSUN" and " Z" both are metal and for the hood."Z" is thicker than "DATSUN".

kats

[kats]

At the Tokyo old car show,two 432s were there.

The Orange one is Z432-R,this car belongs to Mr.Takeuchi and is well known as a best example of Z432-R.We see this car on the book and web so many times.

You can see the Z432-R's oil cooler,non-master vac of the break system.

I have got a NOS oil cooler but I will not install it.S20 engine is very good for cooling,my driving style could be "too cool" for the engine.If you race it and always go up to 10000rpm,you need the oil cooler.If you install it,you also need a pair of special bracket for the dual horns.

And,FRP hood.This is not After market.This is original,very cool.

kats

[26th-Z]

Thanks for the pictures, Kats. These are great!

[kats]

Thank you Chris!

Some one noticed this Z432's hood is NOS but later type.Original hood came with,but paint finish was not completed before I picked up.

Now the original hood is in painting,please note the edge of the corner,it is very simple metal press.This is the earliest.

kats

[Mike]

I love that engine!!

[HS30-H]

Kats,

Nice thread subject, and great pictures - thank you! Your 432 looks beautiful now that it is finished ( my favourite 432 colour too I think ). Congratulations!

The Orange one is Z432-R,this car belongs to Mr.Takeuchi and is well known as a best example of Z432-R.We see this car on the book and web so many times.

I have seen Takeuchi san's car many times at shows, and in magazines / videos etc and no disrespect to him or his car ( of course I love it - especially his tyre choice; very 'correct' ) - but I don't honestly think it is the "best example" of a PZR in Japan because it has so many non-standard parts and modifications on it. In the engine bay alone, you can immediately see the Weber carburettors and red 'Ultra' plug wires are non-standard, and his seats also appear to have been re-covered at some time in the past. I think that there are several more original and 'correct' PZRs in Japan, but their owners are more camera-shy than Takeuchi san.

And of course, just about every PZR was unique in it's specification and details anyway. No two cars were exactly the same..........

I drove Z432 1000 miles in two days.That was very fun to travel.

That days were very fine,strong sun shine and temp rose like summer.

So many bugs sticked on the front section,but Z432 was always fun to drive.

Now Z432 is sitting next to the 240Z,I have just started comparing generally and precisely each other.

Kats,

I would like to hear your impressions on the differences of the two cars with regard to the driving experience. I think this is a good opportunity for an objective comparison between two almost completely standard factory-spec Z cars, made within a few months of eachother, but of different model types and aimed at completely different markets.

As you know, I have driven some 432s ( first time was around Tsukuba circuit - which was very interesting, and on the same day as I drove a Toyota 2000GT - which was a real eye-opener! ) and it was very interesting to compare the driving experiences to my UK-market 240Zs and to my Fairlady 240ZG. But I have also driven some reasonable distances in some USA & Canada market cars here in the UK and in Japan ( one was a 1970-built Canadian market model, and the others were early 1971 and late 1972 USA market models ). The differences were surprising to me even though I was pretty much expecting them.

Have you come to a view yet?

Cheers,

Alan T.