Datsun-240z Vs Fairlady-z432

[Zedrally]

Hi Chris:

snip

In 1969/70 there were over 940 Datsun Dealers in the US, plus another 65 or so in Canada.... Can you name a country in the world that had over 10 Datsun Dealers outside North America?

Like I said, it must have been a very good after thought - yes?

FWIW,

Carl B.

You serious Carl,

10 Dealers outside the US, please, I supplied you with the list of Australian Dealers which listed over 330 Datsun Dealers.

Why do you have to be so USA centric?

OK, I've named a country, now what have I won......?

[Carl Beck]

Hullo All

I hope this doesn't take us all too far away from the original Thread.

..snipped....

So my question is: What is a top quality 240Z (like Kats' 432R for example) worth?

I think this would be most interesting to know!!

Regards, Jack

Hi Jack:

I know that one 432Z in Japan, was offered for sale at $75K USD. The two serious collectors that were considering it - declined. Both expressed the risk of buying a car without going personally to inspect it, the hassle with the exchange rates and transferring large amounts of money outside the US now (Homeland Security), as well as the hassle of getting the car shipped safely from Japan to the Gulf Coast here in the USA.

Taking to them, I believe that if a solid #1 or #2 432Z with proper documentation was offered for sale here in the US, both would have been buyers in the $50K to $60K range Alan mentioned, and perhaps a bit more for the right car.

I do know that $125K will not buy the BRE #3 C-Production Z. The owner said he couldn't think of another car, for that money - that would be as much fun to own. He plans on racing it a few more years.

A Top Quality 240Z will sell for between $25K and $35K right now. Depends on the location of the car and how hard the seller trys to market it - or how hot the buyer is to buy.

If you shop and buy wisely, you can still find super nice 240-Z's in the $12K to $15K range. They won't be Concours winning examples, but they will be very very nice cars. Cars that would win local car shows when judged by knowledgeable judges - will sell for $18K to $20K.

FWIW,

Carl B.

[Carl Beck]

You serious Carl,

10 Dealers outside the US, please, I supplied you with the list of Australian Dealers which listed over 330 Datsun Dealers.

Why do you have to be so USA centric?

OK, I've named a country, now what have I won......?

Hi Mike:

That's just too funny...

I believe it was earlier established that in 1970 there were a few authorized Nissan Distributors in Australia. Australia received about 312 Datsun 240-Z's in 1970. The largest number sent anywhere outside North America.

You might call me American Centric -but then why would I be such a fan of the Datsun 240-Z? I believe that the Z Car is American Centric and it seems there is this constant fog ball here that attempts to blur that fact.

Believe it or not, I am happy that about 500 or so made their way to the fine folks in Australia each year between 1970 and 1973. I'm even more happy that Kats has a Fairlady 432Z. Maybe he'll bring it to America and sell it here...make a ton of money.. and go buy another one.

regards,

Carl B.

[Zedrally]

You know Carl, I'm convinced that you must be going soft.

After reading the guts of this thread, I would have to say that you actually now admit to the 432Z as being...well a 432Z not a Datsun 240-Z that was built for the Japanese market!

[ChrisA]

Like I said, it must have been a very good after thought - yes?

FWIW,

Carl B.

Yes, I'm glad it was. Very glad. My local Dealership, Doan-Rose Datsun knew when I walked in the door that they might have to call Mr. Roberts and his staff for something!

"We want a Datsun to win, ANY Datsun........"

Chris

[kats]

Hello,and thank you all.

Alan and Carl make this thread active and spread more.And of course other folks' inputs are very important and interesting.Thank you always.

For me,this is interesting.Why Nissan sold "stiff suspension" for Europe,"soft suspension" for the U.S. For Japan, both.How about Australia?

HS30 for U.K. and Australia are completely same driving ability?

HLS30 for U.S. and Europe are completely same driving ability?

Mr.Miyazaki once told me when he was a chief of test crew of Europe 240Z,the team brought a 240Z with very very hard suspension to make good lap time at turn pike.He said 240Z was supposed to be enter Montecarlo rally before its debut in Europe,for PR.First he felt it was too much hard,but German Nissan said it was good.

I know there was a DATSUN sports department in the U.S.

And I know Mr.K likes sports car very much.He did great support for motor sports in the U.S.

Did Mr.K think 240Z as it is just fine to sell every body?

Mr.K thought if someone want to race 240Z,just buy parts from DATSUN sports department,didn't he?

kats

PS : amendment,Mr.Miyazaki told me two Z432s were sent to the U.S.Not just S20 engine.

The one was a Z432 and the other was a Z432R. He was told the Z432R was crashed.

If someone find Z432 and Z432R's wreck,please report here!!

Carl,yes Z432's seat basement is painted black this time.Original is my 240Z's seat.See the picture.

[kats]

I will upload of some videos,operation of 8 track stereo system.

Also do you want to see the different lighting system from the U.S. model?

And rally clock operation?

Two cars are locate very far from my house.So it will take some weeks.

kats

[hls30.com]

... do you want to see the different lighting system from the U.S. model?

And rally clock operation?

Two cars are locate very far from my house.So it will take some weeks.

kats

Yes please!

Will

[MikeW]

Kats,

I just noticed that your 432 has a tie-down hook on the right rear corner. I was under the impression that these were only used on cars that were exported via ship. Can you clarify?

[dscott@shouri]

For me,this is interesting.Why Nissan sold "stiff suspension" for Europe,"soft suspension" for the U.S. For Japan, both.How about Australia?

HS30 for U.K. and Australia are completely same driving ability?

HLS30 for U.S. and Europe are completely same driving ability?

.

I am amazed at how history repeats itself. The 03 350z suspension is soft as well. I think they fixed it in later Z's. Any other 04,05,06,07 Z33 people please chime in. Kats many many thanks for the information you have provided.

[sakijo]

Kats,

I just noticed that your 432 has a tie-down hook on the right rear corner. I was under the impression that these were only used on cars that were exported via ship. Can you clarify?

I believe that those are towing hooks . . . Tow something with a Z? Go figure. Anyway, my Skyline has one in the center and it's a JDM model.

[Carl Beck]

Hello,and thank you all.

Alan and Carl make this thread active and spread more.And of course other folks' inputs are very important and interesting.Thank you always.

Hi Kats:

I am so happy for you to have a Fairlady 432Z. Keep it and enjoy it until your children are readly to go to College - then sell it and pay for their education. It is most likely a better investment than money in the bank, and less risky than the stock market.

For me,this is interesting.Why Nissan sold "stiff suspension" for Europe,"soft suspension" for the U.S. For Japan, both.How about Australia? HS30 for U.K. and Australia are completely same driving ability?

HLS30 for U.S. and Europe are completely same driving ability?

The US Spec Springs are 83lbs/in Front and 104 lbs/in Rear

What we call the Euro. Spec. Stage I Springs are 101bls/in Front and 112lbs/in Rear

What we call the Euro Spec. Stage II Springs are 122lbs/in Front and 140lbs/in Rear

Spring rates on competition cars run 250 lbs/in to over 350lbs/in..

As I understand it - the spring rate on the 432Z - were the same as the Euro Spec. Stage I Springs, with much stiffer Race Option rates available... 305lbs/in and 310lbs/in..

The last time Alan and I discussed spring rates - we were not sure if the cars sent to GB had the same spring rates as the cars sent to Australia, and there was a question as to the location of the lower spring perch on the struts between the US, GB and Australian Z's. The location of the spring perch would effect ride height and in turn ground clearance.

Mr.Miyazaki once told me when he was a chief of test crew of Europe 240Z,the team brought a 240Z with very very hard suspension to make good lap time at turn pike.He said 240Z was supposed to be enter Montecarlo rally before its debut in Europe,for PR.First he felt it was too much hard,but German Nissan said it was good.

As Alan mentioned it is more than likely that all these models were tailored to the local market. Given the import taxes in GB and Europe - the market for the Z was most likely limited to serious enthusiasts, whereas the market for the 240-Z here in the US was far broader. Yes, Mr. K wanted everyone to enjoy a Sports/GT not just serious sports car enthusiasts.

I know there was a DATSUN sports department in the U.S. And I know Mr.K likes sports car very much.He did great support for motor sports in the U.S.

Yes - Nissan Motors in USA, had its own Competition Department and Competition Parts Department. So the serious enthusiasts that bought 240-Z's could modify them to whatever they wanted. However our Federal Laws prohibited the manufactures and their Authorized Dealers from making modifications that effected either the Safety of the vehicle or its Emissions Systems.

One of the many unique and very endearing qualities of Mr. K was his desire for the owners of these cars to enjoy competition themselves. The Factory supported race teams of Bob Sharp Racing (BSR) and Brock Racing Enterprises (BRE) here in the States, were encouraged to develop, demonstrate and sell competition parts to the public. They were also, by contract agreement, to share competition car preparation experience with the Nissan Factory Teams in Japan and the private parties competing here in the USA. Given the nature of competition - lots of detailed preparation techniques became closely guarded secrets by all these teams. Factory support for the professional race teams ended here in 73. Nissan couldn't supply the demand already created for the Z's and 510's and Mr. K wanted the private owners to race their cars, with Nissan USA offering various levels of financial support, competition parts and technical support.

It was Mr. K's direct involvement with, and support for , his enthusiast customers here that sat DATSUN and Mr. K apart from the other major manufacturers.

Did Mr.K think 240Z as it is just fine to sell every body?

Exactly - he wanted to draw an entire generation of people into the "joys" of driving. The harsh riding, cramped cabins and unreliable reputations of the other "sports cars" in the class, really did not have broad appeal. The Datsun 240-Z addressed these shortcomings. People that had never thought of owning a sports car - were drawn the 240-Z because of its styling and utility. Once drawn in - they appreciated the car for its reliability, comfort, fun factor and and all around UTILITY! This was a Sports/GT that was made to fit the average size and larger American.

Mr.K thought if someone want to race 240Z,just buy parts from DATSUN sports department,didn't he?

Exactly - DATSUN USA not only sold the parts to the public, they offered technical support as well, related to how to install and use the parts, and under what conditions they were best used. DATSUN USA sent Competition Bulletins to anyone that ask to be placed on the mailing lists, as well as to the local Dealers Parts & Service Dept.

I'm sure that Nissan could have sold thousands of 432Z's here to the enthusiast market - if they had been able to build them and get them to meet the Emissions Standards... Would have been a great car in SCCA's D-Production. At the time $6,500.00 would not have scared too many enthusiasts away. Just the light weight bodies with the emissions controlled L24 would have been a great option, but then it would have had to pass the crash test standards here as well...

kind regards,

Carl B.