Datsun-240z Vs Fairlady-z432

[kats]

Hi TofuRunner, thank you Alan and g72s20 ,in Japan there were lots of optional parts for Zs from Nissan sports department.Cams/valve springs/webber etc. I think many Z432R owners installed these parts when they race it.

kats

[Carl Beck]

Thank you Carl,

About test cars,I think they could be HLS30-00004 and 00005 but it could be different if HS30-00002/3/4 were made before the test cars.

Hi Kats:

As the HLS30 and HS30 had different series numbers - why would it make any difference if HS30-00002/3/4 were made before the test cars?

FWIW,

Carl B.

[Danglybanger]

does anyone know what engine the z432r has in it. all i know is that it has a dual over head cam

Mo Val, eh? I'm right by March I'm telling you this so that if you see anyone trying to steal my hubcaps off my 280, you'll feel obliged to stop them

Edited August 17, 2008 by Danglybanger

[HS30-H]

Hi Kats:

As the HLS30 and HS30 had different series numbers - why would it make any difference if HS30-00002/3/4 were made before the test cars?

Carl,

You need to go back to the thread that Kats started on the subject of the data he obtained from Nissan Shatai. Then you will ( hopefully ) see why the manufacturing dates of the earliest numbered HS30 bodies would tell us something about the body numbers of the North American test cars.

[HS30-H]

Hi Kats:

As the HLS30 and HS30 had different series numbers - why would it make any difference if HS30-00002/3/4 were made before the test cars?

Here's the thread you need to look at again. Particularly pages 4 & 5:http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7801

[Carl Beck]

From earlier threads - Kats said that the test cars were Pre-production or Primary Production prototypes #14 and 15

---------------------------from the last corrections to the referred thread - - ---

May 1969 - total 2 cars - one domestic, one export:

1 = S30-00001 (Factory prototype 1)

2 = HLS30-00001 (Factory prototype 2)

June 1969 - total 1 car - domestic:

3 = PS30-00001 (Factory prototype 3)

July 1969 - total 4 cars - two domestic, two export:

4 = HLS30-00002 (Primary Production prototype 1)

5 = S30-00002 (Primary Production prototype 2)

6 = PS30-00002 (Primary Production prototype 3)

7 = HS30-00001 (Primary Production prototype 4)

August 1969 - total 7 cars:

8 = S30-00003 (Primary Production prototype 5)

9 = S30-00004 (Primary Production prototype 6)

10 = S30-00005 (Primary Production prototype 7)

11 = PS30-00003 (Primary Production prototype 8)

12 = HLS30-00003 (Primary Production prototype 9)

13 = S30-00006 (Primary Production prototype 10)

14 = PS30-00004 (Primary Production prototype 11)

--------------------------------------------------------

Production for Sept of 69

9 Domestic

2 Exports

11+11 in Sept is 22. So the two exports in Sept had to be HLS30 0004 and 0005, with domestics filling in the blanks. Add any HS30 in Sept. and it becomes impossible for the test cars to fill positions 14 & 15, as the total would have been 22 or above going into Oct.

As mentioned the test cars arrived the 9/10th of Oct. so they couldn't have been produced after that.

Past that point, HLS30 0006, 0007 and 0008 arrived just after mid Oct. 69, in time to make the North American Show Car Circuit in late Oct. 69 - LA and NY being the first of the series then.

So I don't see how the build of HS30 0002/3/4 could effect anything..

I could be missing something...

FWIW,

Carl B.

[kats]

Hi Carl,

Yes that is the matter.You are correct Carl, I made a mistake. I thought the possibility of HS30-00002 and 00003 were made in Sep 1969 as only TWO export model.

In this case, they could be Primary production prototype #12 and #13 , but there are no place for HLS30s as a Primary production prototype #14 and #15.If that happned,#14 and #15 are Domestic models.

I say it is clear that two test cars are HLS30 and they are Primary production prototype #14 and #15. So it is natural #14 and #15 are HLS30-00004 and 00005.

Thank you,

kats

[kats]

I do not remember I show this before,maby once or twice I posted?

This scan tells us very interesting informations.Each car has each place(department) to belong and has subject to be used.

1 = S30-00001 Nissan Shatai (test drive)

2 = HLS30-00001 Q21 (production factory study)

3 = PS30-00001 Nissan Shatai (test drive)

4 = HLS30-00002 Nissan Shatai (test drive)

5 = S30-00002 Nissan Shatai (test drive)

6 = PS30-00002 K11 (registration)

7 = HS30-00001 Nissan Shatai (test drive)

8 = S30-00003 K11 (registration)

9 = S30-00004 F45 (K31 spare)

10 = S30-00005 F45 (K31 spare)

11 = PS30-00003 F45 (K31 spare)

12 = HLS30-00003 E81 (service; service manual? kats)

13 = S30-00006 F45 (for press/media)

14 = PS30-00004 F45 (K31 spare)

This report is dated 25th Jun 1969.

kats

[kats]

Hi,

What does "K" , "F" , "Q" mean?

I guess these are name of groupe(department) in Nissan .

I attached this picture got from Mr.Matsuo with permission. "K-12" must be a design studio code.June 1969 is close my birth day;18th June 1969!

kats

Edited August 18, 2008 by kats

[kats]

Hi,

I revised and put some video of my 240Z.

Please see 39 years old Am radio is still working and useable in Japanese radio frequency band.

http://www.geocities.jp/datsunz903/240zvideo.html

Engine is noisy,is not it?

kats

[geezer]

Hi,

What does "K" , "F" , "Q" mean?

I guess these are name of groupe(department) in Nissan .

I attached this picture got from Mr.Matsuo with permission. "K-12" must be a design studio code.June 1969 is close my birth day;18th June 1969!

kats

Kats, or anyone else with an interest, don’t let any of this post corrupt your views and opinions of events at Nissan Shatai. This is only derived from my experiences and only meant to be used for comparison and possibly help put a few pieces together.

I think you are correct in your assumption that “K”, “F”, and “Q” represent different departments. All these different departments would need an example(s) for their own specific purposes.

It is my belief that “Q” would represent the Quality Control (or similarly named) department. It was common practice for this department to keep an “example” of the completed frame-up assembly, in the Layout Room, in the Metal Shop. This “example” had been meticulously gone over during its construction to ensure exacting tolerances and other vital specifications. It was a bare shell kept for reference purposes only. No changes could be made to it. It was vital to have this example and it was an invaluable aid, for maintaining consistency in Frame-up and also when it came to setting up production jigs and other assembly fixtures, etc. Usually, after a number of changes had been made “on the roll” during the production run, it became necessary for another “master copy” to be made to reflect these changes and replace the previous example, which in turn was reintroduced into production. (I have personally requested a master copy from the Layout Room, to be used to build a vehicle for myself). Usually, individual “Masters” had to be made for different models, but not always. Some variances did not compromise the dimensional integrity.

Likewise, every other division, such as Paint, Trim, Chassis, Motor Line, Final Car, etc. would want access to one of these prototypes, whether pre-production or production, to use for their own needs.

Of course, Paint for the most part being a “one size fits all” operation, was relegated to referring to both the Metal Shop “Master” and the Trim example, to address their needs. For all intents and purposes they were shared.

I would venture a guess that “F” represents Factory, designating it for factory internal reference or employee training use, as I previously (above) alluded to and “K” seems to be assigned to “Design” or possibly Art” department?

The Service Garage & Manual preparation process would need an example available also. Several were designated for extended milage testing and others for meeting Federal Compliance Parameters (registration?).

Another guess I would like to make is that there was a need to design/build both LHD & RHD example prototypes right from the start, but labeling the end market was not vital information yet needed.

I enjoyed the videos. Your son will soon be able to reach the pedals and see out the windshield at the same time, before you know it.:laugh:

[Carl Beck]

Amen Ron!

Analyze what you design, build what you analyzed, test what you built and feed the results back to the analysis. Iterate until you get the same results from testing the as-built as you got from the analysis.

As Designed, Configuration Management, As Built. In the end, As Designed and As Built must be one and the same. Because any necessary changes to the design, have to be implemented with a Design Change Order first. Ideally changes are made to the Master one at a time, and everyone involved is notified - - but we usually don't live in an ideal world.

Hard to explain the fundamentals to people that haven't had the pleasure of working in a manufacturing or production environment; but even harder to make the people that do work there follow and apply them!!

Some of the reasons that the Factory Service Manuals and Parts Catalogs may or may not perfectly match your car.

There is a TV Show named "How It's Made". Produced by the Canadian Dept. of Education for Public Broadcast. It is a wonderful show and provides some insight to the world of manufacturing. A world that perhaps 95% of the people never see.

FWIW,

Carl B.