Datsun-240z Vs Fairlady-z432

[HS30-H]

Alan told me onece before,Germany 240Z sometimes has magnesium wheels e.t.c.How about your car:)

Hi Kats,

It was the Portuguese market that had the very cool spec HLS30s, with factory headlamp covers and the '432' Kobe Seiko wheels as standard equipment. The franchise holder ( Entreposto ) had good ties with Nissan, and were able to negotiate a very nice combination of parts for their market version.

I believe Thorsten's 240Z was a recent import from the USA. It's not an original German market car.

Cheers,

Alan T.

[kats]

Thank you Alan,

How are you doing? When are you coming Japan next? When you come,please let me know,I have some for you.

The Portuguese market , now I understand.

kats

[HS30-H]

Hi Kats,

I'm not too bad, thank you. Quite busy with work at this time of year.....

Don't know when I'll be in Japan next. Three times already this year. I don't like the extreme heat all that much ( it was even too hot for me in Hokkaido last month ), or the bad exchange rate...!

Cheers,

Alan T.

[kats]

Yes Alan,

This summer in Japan is unusually hot.It is like everything is melt down

if you leave it outside!!

35 to 39 degrees of Celsius is common everywhere in Japan this summer,

I guess it is hotter than Hawaii. Close to Las Vegas?

kats

[Reverend]

This is almost in topic. Finn-spec 240z's had 5 speed gearbox and foglights factory installed. Here's a review from 1972 and few nice pics too. Nice white interior, shifter knob seems different than normal.

I couldnt import the pdf:s for some reason. It just wont let me upload them in here so i uploaded them in different place

Here's first http://reverend.kuvat.fi/kuvat/1.pdf press the blue hyperlink under the picture to download or open it larger.

Second http://reverend.kuvat.fi/kuvat/2.pdf

[NismoZ]

Man great thread, with all this talk about the S20 I am wondering, if one could get the s20 for a decent price would it be worth it to put it in a 240z over the L Gata? Also what trannys do the 432's originally come with? are they even similar to the L series tranny's?

[26th-Z]

The S20 engine is rated at 160ps at 7000 rpm. The L24 is rated at 150ps at 5600 rpm. I guess "decent price" depends on how much money you are willing to spend. The PS30 (Z432) came with the FS 5C 71A type 5-speed transmission.

[NismoZ]

Thanks for the reply 26th-Z

Ok lets remove the "decent price" part of the question and ask , if you had a built Lgata and a S20 sitting in your garage what one would you go with?

To be honest Im planning on building a L Gata stroker but after reading about the S20 I am wondering if it would be worth looking into. I have been looking for info on this engine but it seems to be limited. I'm also wondering if it would be a difficult swap and what is all needed to get it in a usdm 240z.

About the FS5C71A transmission, Isn't that the same tranny that is used in the Datsun 2000 Roadster? Is the bell housing the same for the S20?

Edited September 16, 2010 by NismoZ

[HS30-H]

NismoZ,

I think you're very unlikely to find a complete S20 engine for what you consider to be a "decent price". The scarcity of the engines and their specific components, along with the increasing prices of the cars that they were originally fitted to, means that people who have spare engines are tending to hold on to them or only sell them for high figures.

I think you'd struggle to find a complete, rebuildable core engine for anything less than 1.5 million Yen. If you did find one, it will most likely be from a C10-series Skyline ( C110-series being fairly unlikely ) and not from a PS30 or PS30-SB model. Therefore, you'd need to source the 432-specific sump, oil pickup, oil pump extension and engine mount brackets.

Any used S20 engine you buy will almost certainly need a complete rebuild. They are exponentially more costly to rebuild than an L-gata. The price of a new S20 water pump - for example - would make your eyes water.

As 26th-Z mentioned, the FS5C71-A transmission was used - but with the S20-specific bellhousing, which is nothing like the 'Roadster' or L-series bellhousings. Later cars used the FS5C71-B transmission, but again this used an S20-specific integral bellhousing / front case. They are not cheap, I'm afraid....

As for fitting the engine, you'd need to fabricate the S20-specific front crossmember ( taller engine mount 'towers' with a different angle to them ) and address the issue of the lack of space on the exhaust side of an LHD installation. You'll be building a fairly tortured exhaust manifold to clear the steering gear and master cylinders, and S20 engines are very sensitive to manifold shape and sizing.

As for power and bang-for-buck, it's no contest. Stock for stock the S20 wins, but start tuning and upgrading and the L-gata leaps ahead due to extra swept volume, the possibility to swap components, and the relatively cheap tuning parts available for it. You can build a BIG power S20 ( long stroke crank, bigger pistons and liners ) but you top out around 2300cc and 280ps, and it costs an absolute fortune. It also becomes a typical small capacity 'race' type NA engine in that it needs to operate within a narrow rev range to produce its power, which limits driveability.

So, to cut a long story short, give up now

Alan T.

[Carl Beck]

........

Late 1971, HS30 was available for Japanese people,at this time, chassis number HS30-10001 was the first one for Fairlady-240Z(or 240Z-L or 240ZG).

So, no HS30-0000X or HS30-0XXXX were sold in Japan.

This is my thought, I do not think there is HS30-09999.How many HS30s under #10000 were made for the world?

And I do not know why, in 1972, NISSAN started chassis number HS30-100001 for the car.

How many HS30s between 10001 and 100001 were made for the world?

Here are some numbers,they may not have test cars or racing cars.

-------

HS30(L24 engined in japan)

1971 : 10001 to 10436

1972 : 10437 to 12045 / 14001 to 14801 / 100001 to 100800

1973 : 100801 to 101537 / 102001 to 103262

Hi Kats:

Here are some VIN's reported for Z's from Australia & NZ

that seem to be within the ranges above:

HS30 10469 *

HS30 10481 *

HS30 10517

HS30 10527

HS30 10552

HS30-10899

HS30 11126

HS30 11538 *

HS30-011692

HS30-011719

HS30 011758

HS30 011955

HS30 100173

HS30 100243 *

HS30 100245 *

HS30 100414

HS30 100959

HS30 100983

HS30 101227

HS30 101370 *

HS30 101487 *

HS30 102234 *

HS30 102296 *

HS30 102615

HS30 102632

HS30 102640

HS30 102660

HS30 102698 *

HS30 102882 *

HS30 102904

HS30 103036

HS30 103043 *

Highest Number So Far Reported Under 10,000

HS30-01923

Highest Number So Far Reported between 10,000 and 100,000

HS30 012058

Highest Number So Far Reported above 100001

HS30 103694

* indicates Public Register on ZHome.com

All others are on my non-public register

FWIW,

Carl B.

[xs10shl]

I think you'd struggle to find a complete, rebuildable core engine for anything less than 1.5 million Yen. If you did find one, it will most likely be from a C10-series Skyline ( C110-series being fairly unlikely ) and not from a PS30 or PS30-SB model. Therefore, you'd need to source the 432-specific sump, oil pickup, oil pump extension and engine mount brackets.

With Alan on this one. I haven't checked prices lately, but I'd perhaps even consider 1.5 million Yen a good price for a decent core.

As an aside, a while back i was quoted in the neighborhood of 5 million Yen for a finished 2.3 s20. That sounded expensive at the time, but with today's exchange rate, that becomes a cool $60,000. Probably should have done it when I had the chance - would have "saved" some money.

[xs10shl]

Apropos s20 - here's what appears to be a well-worn s20 for sale for an even 2.5 million yen, or $30,000. Lots of incorrect and missing bits, including very expensive carburetor and air cleaner setup. Linkage also missing. Probably over priced, but perhaps not too far off. I'd imagine a rebuildable engine with no missing parts would be in this price range.

http://page5.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/e107759035