Datsun-240z Vs Fairlady-z432

[Jason240z]

11 minutes ago, HS30-H said:

Jason,

Yes, I have a set but you'll have to prise one out of my cold, dead hand. Originals are not replaceable!

I've shown them to a few engineering shops, most of whom don't want to know. Apparently they'd need to make a special fixture to crimp the 60 degree collar onto the nut *just right* (so that it spins freely), and minimum 5,000 off.

Nuts.

 

That is Nuts.  I use a small engineering shop who only make prototype runs, (small batch engineering is how they formed their name!).

I'm not in the enviable to need them, just if it would help yourself. They're going to make a set of spindle pins and little bits for me.

 

 

[Gav240z]

What is the advantage of the non-locking nuts?

Apparently the Enkei wheels fitted to the 4 banger works cars of the period also had non-locking nut types.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZM9h8nL9ss0eXiE42

I have heard a few people describe them to me, but not actually sure of their real advantage? Are these the same nuts?

Photos attached.

Edited July 19, 2017 by Gav240z

[HS30-H]

5 hours ago, Gav240z said:

What is the advantage of the non-locking nuts?

Apparently the Enkei wheels fitted to the 4 banger works cars of the period also had non-locking nut types.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZM9h8nL9ss0eXiE42

I have heard a few people describe them to me, but not actually sure of their real advantage? Are these the same nuts?

If by "non-locking" you mean the same thing:

It's simply a 60 degree tapered collar that is crimped (lightly) to the shank of the nut, allowing it to spin freely and independently of the nut. That 60 degree taper sits on a matching 60 degree taper in the wheel, allowing the nut to tighten up onto the wheel stud and spin on the flat side of the collar. It accurately centres the (stud centric) wheel on the wheel studs, and saves the nut from galling the wheel. Simple.

It's a fancy washer, in essence. Small Fords of the 1970s had a similar design (although 1.5 pitch) and RS Watanabe's in-house nuts do too.

[kats]

On 2017/7/17 at 11:26 PM, Captain Obvious said:

Kats, Here's a crude sketch of how I believe they made those lug nuts:

They could have made the entire nut from one piece, but they would have needed to start with the lager rod and they would have needed to create the hex portion in a different operation. Making hex shapes on a lathe is a more difficult thing to do, so if you start with hex shaped material, then everything is simple lathe work. If you have to actually cut the hex shape, you need a more complicated machine. You may even have to transfer the parts to a different machine completely in order to cut the hex. Starting with hex shaped material allows them to do everything on simple lathes and also reduces the amount of total material they have to remove in order to create the final part.

One other advantage to using two parts is that it allows them to use different materials for the two portions. I don't know if they did something like that, but for example, it could have allowed them to do something like use a hardened seat on the tapered locating washer while still having a more ductile unhardened threaded portion.

Thank you Capatain Obvious ! The making process is now clear for us.

I too sketched this, please see it. I still have a question how is the thin flange made ?

Kats

[kats]

On 2017/7/18 at 1:03 AM, Jason240z said:

Hi

Is it a slip collar? Have you a pic from the other side?

I'm going to see Alan for a coffee in the next week or so, i'll ask if he's got one I can look at/borrow to take to a local machine shop to see what they say about making a batch, if that would help and its ok with Alan?

Hi Jason240z, did you have a coffee with Alan in London? I wish I could be there !!

And also thank you for the information of a engineering shop in your city, it is nice to know.

Kats

[kats]

Hi Alan, thank you so much , you wrote what I wanted to say. I am stupid I thought my English was OK for everyone.Embarrassed !

I made some video for this, you can see the nut is spinning.

Kats

 

[kats]

And Mr.Yamamoto (shop owner who is selling my spare S20 engine) showed a 240ZG with Kameari twin idler gear . Sounds awesome, like a S20 !

Kats

 

[kats]

Another topic,

I drove my Z432 1500 miles from June to July, two times round trip from my home to Tokyo.

I visited Mr. Fukuda, he is a doctor, surgeon. His 1973 Z432 is the second from the last, PS30-100007 . Like other S30 series, it has a new style floors , bigger master vac, associated pedal location, new transmission member , radiator support has a rubber seal , etc .

Mr.Fukuda is my hero, he has no compromise for everything, 100% stock.

You see the non stock spark plug wires, horn brackets but he has several sets of new originals !

Runs like a new car. 

Kats

 

[kats]

Finally, I confirmed it is four pinion LSD! 

Yesterday I visited Mr. Kawashima, he disassembled my LSD, and we saw it has four pinion gears !

It has slightly rust surface, but it is truly never used LSD. 

Mr.Kawashima made special tools for disassembling R192 into every single part,

and he managed to source one special bearing which was not available for long time . 

We see some parts are interchangeable with R192 normal LSD and R180 LSDs.

Virtually R192 four pinion LSD and R192 two pinion LSD looked same but the cover , case, pressure rings, etc the dimensions are not the same.

The biggest difference is this four pinion LSD has six plates for each side while two 

pinion LSD has only four plates , and thickness of plates are different too.

Kats

Edited July 21, 2017 by kats

[kats]

Mr.Kawashima restored a R192 of a Z432-R recently.

https://www.vintagecraft-e-za.com/s30zのページ/旧車のレストアは楽し/ｚ４３２ｒのこと/

https://www.vintagecraft-e-za.com/s30zのページ/日産旧車の駆動系レストア/ｒ１９２デフ-ｚ４３２ｒ用-ハコスカ/

Kats

[Captain Obvious]

Hi Kats,

Thank you for the sketch and video showing the taper collar spinning independently of the rest of the nut. And your English is not the problem. The problem is me overstepping my understanding and making assumptions about how something is put together without ever examining one in person. Thank you for your patience.

I do not believe the retaining feature that holds the collar in place is a separate piece. I still believe there are just to pieces to the assembly. I do not see any seam where the face of the shoulder meets the shank. Looking at the picture you posted here, that face appears to be integral with the center portion of the nut:

With that in mind, I suspect they forged the metal outward slightly to deform the shank a small amount and therefore retain the collar. They may have machined a thin section of material to ease this process. There appears as if there could be a jagged burr edge of extruded material visible on the silver plated nut on the right. I do not see the same burr on the yellow plated nut on the right, but it could just be better processing on that part.

It would only take a small amount of material interference to prevent that collar from slipping off. In application, all the force would be in the direction to press the collar towards the hex portion and away from the retaining feature. It seems the retaining feature really only needs to be strong enough to keep the collars from falling off during shipping and handling, and while rattling around in a toolbox.

Some other less likely ideas... 1) They undercut the shank a tiny amount and heated the collar (and maybe chilled the nut) and then slipped the two parts together while they were at very different temperatures. Once at the same temperature, the parts would be held together. 2) One other wild idea is that there are retaining pins inside the nut body that were forced outward before the threading operation.

Would you like for me to make one or two to test some of the ideas above?

[kats]

Yes please , Captain !

When you find something interesting, let us know. 

Kats