Datsun-240z Vs Fairlady-z432

[Gav240z]

7 hours ago, kats said:

This is another example, we see “ 2,4 L(cursive) DX “ on it . I imagined when workers saw this chalk markings, they would have had been reminded that cars needed black wiper blades, scallop style wheel caps, horizontal  bar type front grille .

I did not realise the 240Z-L came with those features! The black wiper blades, and horizontal grille are interesting. I thought it would have had the "mesh" style grille like all other home market cars. What do the scallop style wheel caps look like?

A 240Z-L here with the black wiper arms.

https://petrolicious.com/articles/this-nissan-fairlady-240z-l-is-a-rare-japanese-survivor

 

[kats]

3 hours ago, Gav240z said:

I did not realise the 240Z-L came with those features! The black wiper blades, and horizontal grille are interesting. I thought it would have had the "mesh" style grille like all other home market cars. What do the scallop style wheel caps look like?

A 240Z-L here with the black wiper arms.

https://petrolicious.com/articles/this-nissan-fairlady-240z-l-is-a-rare-japanese-survivor

 

Hi Gavin, I think I made you confused , sorry . It is not a new thing, a wheel cap from autumn 1971 . Some one said it looks like a scallop motif design, I think so too, so I said it is a scallop type wheel cap . 
As a side note , Fairlady 240Z (HS30S ) doesn’t have black wiper arms and blades , it was silver like other cars .

I really love the blue Fairlady 240Z-L , Resided in the US . It is just like a car in the brochure. In the same brochure, there is a phantom view of a Fairlady 240Z-L drew by Mr. Inomoto . He did many art work for Nissan , one of my favorite is a big poster of Z432 . I am feeling some connection with my Z432 because when my Z432 was featured in a magazine in 1974 , this drawing was featured on back side of my car.

Kats

Edited March 14, 2022 by kats

[Gav240z]

6 hours ago, kats said:

Some one said it looks like a scallop motif design, I think so too, so I said it is a scallop type wheel cap . 
As a side note , Fairlady 240Z (HS30S ) doesn’t have black wiper arms and blades , it was silver like other cars .

I thought about it later and figured that was what you meant. Did Fairlady 240Z-S come with steel wheels only? Not hubcaps?

Here is another 240Z-L that found its way into Australia but it's a later 73 model. So the blue is different.

https://goo.gl/photos/ouLBkiFBY2c2SkbL9

It doesn't have the black wipers but possible a lot was changed over the years. 

 

 

 

 

[HS30-H]

12 hours ago, kats said:

Alan , could you tell us more about this special hand brake lever with your “special “ one ?

 

11 hours ago, xs10shl said:

All the period Works 240ZR pictures that I have of perhaps 6-7 LHD cars show that the LHD Works cars sported consoles with left-side handbrakes.  Period pictures I have of RHD cars naturally show the handbrakes remaining on the right side.  Perhaps there are exceptions to this protocol, but I am not aware of them personally.

I certainly don't know of any exceptions. All the Works LHD 240Z rally cars that I'm aware of had the transposed handbrake lever position and a bias valve. This was eventually paired with a 'Fly Off' function for fast Special Stage starts and - later - hydraulic actuation. There were even double servo cars. Strong and effective hand brakes are still one of the black arts of fast rally driving.

On the S30 its not that simple, as the whole mechanism needs to be mirror-imaged as well as the tunnel sheetmetal for the mounts. It also required custom a console. I've been replicating all this on my LHD Works car 'evocation'/'tribute' (or whatever it is...) and it takes some doing.

Perhaps this is a clue as to why Nissan didn't go to the trouble of having two different handbrake/E-brake lever positions for the production cars.

   

[26th-Z]

Getting back to the glove box discussion:  I finally took a picture of the glove box from HLS30-00026.  It's a universal type glovebox and 26th is a 'U' not a 'UV' but just the same for glove boxes.

[scotta]

On 3/14/2022 at 10:24 PM, Gav240z said:

I thought about it later and figured that was what you meant. Did Fairlady 240Z-S come with steel wheels only? Not hubcaps?

Here is another 240Z-L that found its way into Australia but it's a later 73 model. So the blue is different.

https://goo.gl/photos/ouLBkiFBY2c2SkbL9

It doesn't have the black wipers but possible a lot was changed over the years. 

 

 

 

 

Gav, clearly a nice genuine JDM market car (8 track, indicator parking light switches, Fairlady Z on glove box, push to pass on the indicator stalk, z on horn button). However I would have expected the vin to be S30-103407,  I understood all JDM cars did not have the H prefix. Might be a typo.

 

I.e. my 1972 JDM fairlady Z-L  is S30-100698. 2.0L engine, 5 speed.  Made its way to Australia via Kentucky, USA.

[HS30-H]

3 hours ago, scotta said:

Gav, clearly a nice genuine JDM market car (8 track, indicator parking light switches, Fairlady Z on glove box, push to pass on the indicator stalk, z on horn button). However I would have expected the vin to be S30-103407,  I understood all JDM cars did not have the H prefix. Might be a typo.

 

I.e. my 1972 JDM fairlady Z-L  is S30-100698. 2.0L engine, 5 speed.  Made its way to Australia via Kentucky, USA.

If you scroll back up a few posts, you will see that Kats posted photos of some relevant pages from Nissan's 'Service Shuho' booklets, which described all the models available in Japan when published as well as major and minor changes and updates.

The H-prefixed Japanese markets are included, and they were sold from the last quarter of 1971 through to the end of 1973 in Japan.

HS30-S Fairlady 240Z
HS30-D Fairlady 240Z-L
HS30-H Fairlady 240ZG

 

[Gav240z]

17 hours ago, scotta said:

I.e. my 1972 JDM fairlady Z-L  is S30-100698. 2.0L engine, 5 speed.  Made its way to Australia via Kentucky, USA.

Difference is your car is a Fairlady Z-L and the car in the photos I linked to is a Fairlady 240Z-L. L24 = H prefix.

And yes it was a beautiful car, hindsight is a wonderful thing, but at the time I should have snapped it up...

[kats]

On 3/15/2022 at 8:58 PM, scotta said:

Gav, clearly a nice genuine JDM market car (8 track, indicator parking light switches, Fairlady Z on glove box, push to pass on the indicator stalk, z on horn button). However I would have expected the vin to be S30-103407,  I understood all JDM cars did not have the H prefix. Might be a typo.

 

I.e. my 1972 JDM fairlady Z-L  is S30-100698. 2.0L engine, 5 speed.  Made its way to Australia via Kentucky, USA.

Hi scotta , thanks for joining here . Your Z-L will be a late 1972 model . In September 1972 , Nissan jumped a digit , from 5 digits to 6 digits of chassis number. We believe there would never be S30-99999 . Not even S30-20000. According to the Japan automobile industry corporation, S30-011109 is  the last one before S30-100001. 
 

Same thing happened for Fairlady Z432 and Fairlady 240Z / 240ZL /240ZG . PS30-100001 and HS30-100001 were  born in September 1972 but that doesn’t mean the car is 100001th Z432 ,or  100001th Fairlady (or Datsun RHD ) 240Z , or 100001th of all the S30 family either. How about Datsun 240Z left hand drive ?

 

HLS30-100001 is 100001th LHD 240Z .And the car would certainly be born in September (or late August) 1972 . So it seems to me that Nissan  just wanted to flatten chassis number of all the S30 family.  ( side note , Z432 jumped three times in the chassis number, very complicated!! )

 

Japanese people finally got L24 model for their S30 series in late 1971 , from HS30-10001 . Some people would have had believed the car would be the first one of Fairlady 240Z series . In this case , that would be correct as long as Nissan’s statement in the Service Shuho is true . But if people would have thought the car would be 10001th Fairlady 240Z or Datsun 240Z , that is wrong .  

Gavin , could you help us to understand how many HS30 cars before October 1971 were they made  ?

Datsun 240Z R-DRIVE parts catalog shows that from September 1971 , HS30-01501 is the first one. Next month  HS30-10001 was born according to the Service Shuho “ Introducing Fairlady 240Z series “  . According to interviews with Nissan engineers in some magazines , at that time Nissan shatai was capable making 2000 S30 series cars a month , in April 1972 , they made total 100000 S30 series cars . And also in the same month , they achieved making  4000 S30 series cars a month. 80 to 90 % of them were export model. 
 

So , between September and October 1971 ,  basically 2000  cars were made . Most of them would be export 240Z (80 to 90 %) . 
What ratio would be applied to cars HS30 and HLS30 ? Maybe 1:9 ? 
I guess 200 or 300 HS30 cars would have been added , HS30-018XX or something like that would be a last one before HS30-10001 . 
 

What do you think about it ? 
 

Kats

Edited March 16, 2022 by kats

[kats]

I saw someone said Nissan only made HLS30 first , like 100 or 1000 240Zs . I would like to share this with people who are interested in how they made our cars . We have a good source. 

Please see this picture,  a blue Datsun 240Z was followed by an orange Fairlady Z-L . Nissan Shatai was able to mix all the models in  the assembly lines.  However there might be some batches of certain models . Especially in a painting room , same color was sprayed for  some batches of cars .  
Engines , they might have been the same . 
Kats 

 

Edited March 16, 2022 by kats

[scotta]

6 hours ago, kats said:

Hi scotta , thanks for joining here . Your Z-L will be a late 1972 model . In September 1972 , Nissan jumped a digit , from 5 digits to 6 digits of chassis number. We believe there would never be S30-99999 . Not even S30-20000. According to the Japan automobile industry corporation, S30-011109 is  the last one before S30-100001. 
...

 

Thanks Kats, you amaze me with your knowledge! 

[Gav240z]

6 hours ago, kats said:

Gavin , could you help us to understand how many HS30 cars before October 1971 were they made  ?

Datsun 240Z R-DRIVE parts catalog shows that from September 1971 , HS30-01501 is the first one. Next month  HS30-10001 was born according to the Service Shuho “ Introducing Fairlady 240Z series “  . According to interviews with Nissan engineers in some magazines , at that time Nissan shatai was capable making 2000 S30 series cars a month , in April 1972 , they made total 100000 S30 series cars . And also in the same month , they achieved making  4000 S30 series cars a month. 80 to 90 % of them were export model. 
 

So , between September and October 1971 ,  basically 2000  cars were made . Most of them would be export 240Z (80 to 90 %) . 
What ratio would be applied to cars HS30 and HLS30 ? Maybe 1:9 ? 
I guess 200 or 300 HS30 cars would have been added , HS30-018XX or something like that would be a last one before HS30-10001 . 
 

What do you think about it ? 

Hi Kats,

The data I have is all from user submitted data or from cars I've managed to uncover chassis no.s for, usually from for sale listings or from licence plate reverse look up's. So it's patchy at best.

But here is what I can tell you.

HS30-01501 was on TradeMe.co.nz in NZ recently for sale (May 2020), according to the then owner, it  sold new in Queensland Australia.

Quote

The car was first registered in Queensland. 

We purchased the car from the original family owners and used it as an every day vehicle in Australia, until returning to New Zealand in 2004. 

Photo of how it looks now.

HS30 01501

I've tried to determine what is the highest HS30 prefix car before reaching #2000 and the highest recorded number I have is: HS30 01973, I don't have photos of that car, but the next highest car is: HS30 01945 and I do have photos of that car. This car is also Australian delivered. The compliance date (date they arrived and were certified in Australia) seems to be consistently around Dec 1971.
HS30 01945

What I've found is that towards the end of the chassis range, cars were sold in NZ and the UK.

For example:

HS30-01838
HS30-01839
HS30-01843

All appear to have been in NZ.

HS30-01914 was sold in the UK.

I think your guesstimate of 300+ cars is probably fair.

What I noticed with HS30's (In Australia anyway) is that the 72 model year is by far the rarest model (compared to 70,71 and 73). I am guessing this is because Nissan ramped up production of Fairlady 240Z and Fairlady 240ZGs around this time period and perhaps made less HS30's for Australia, NZ, PNG, South Africa, UK, Hong Kong etc..

I do try and collect HS30 data outside of Australia, but getting VIN #s from Japanese cars is always a challenge as @HS30-H has informed me of strict privacy laws (I actually think this is a good thing) and to be fair I think the bulk export HS30s did arrive in Australia out of all RHD export markets and so that's where I've found most of the data.

As you know I also own HS30 10552 which is a "72" model, but the date stamps on the seat brackets indicate Dec 71 manufacture date.