Datsun-240z Vs Fairlady-z432

[kats]

Hi, I would like to share this, Alan made a great post in another thread. I have always wanted people to know why our cars had been going to have a six-cylinder engine at some point in the development process. That was because of S20, Prince oriented way advanced technology for the time.

One more thing. Uemura san includes a quote of some paragraphs from Teiichi Hara's own book (recommended, BTW). Hara san was manager of the First Design Department at Nissan and Uemura san quotes Hara san because he relates a KEY stage in Nissan's Go/No Go stage of the Maru Z project. Without passing this stage, Nissan's senior management simply would not have given clearance for the engineering and styling work to proceed. What was the deciding factor?

The deciding factor was the inclusion of the road-going version of the Prince GR8 twin cam engine (the Nissan S20 two litre 24v twin cam six) as an option in the engineering and styling of the Maru Z project. Hara san described this as "A complete victory". Without it, they would not have got the go-ahead for the whole family of variants. It is a very revealing anecdote, the kind that automotive journalists and marque/model scholars set great store by.

Thanks Alan!

Kats

Edited February 26 by kats

[kats]

Japanese People don’t care about cars which were sold outside of Japan. My US 240Z has never been invented to Nostalgic Hero magazine. I know some people still think it is a fake of S30. The average sales price is backing up what I am saying. A Fairlady-Z  2/2 is now pricing double or triple of an US 240Z. Am I sad looking at those things? Maybe. But anyway I have my beautiful US 240Z which makes me so proud. 
 

People living in overseas don’t care about Japanese Fairlady Z cars. I have seen a lot of people don’t like G-nose because simply it looks ugly to them. Also people don’t like 2- liters cars, Z432 is not an exception. People don’t need information because they don’t use it for their cars.  

That is why I am here, and my friends here. I want people to know whole range of our cars. I believe looking into various types of our cars make us fun to enjoy better.

Kats

[Gav240z]

19 hours ago, kats said:

A Fairlady-Z  2/2 is now pricing double or triple of an US 240Z. Am I sad looking at those things? Maybe. But anyway I have my beautiful US 240Z which makes me so proud. 

But is that because it's LHD instead of RHD? I know in Australia there was a couple of really nice imported LHD 240z's for sale, but nobody wanted to buy them because of the LHD configuration. I personally could not care less, if I was in the market and found a clean LHD car, I'd purchase it based on rust free status. Most people won't be driving the car more than a handful of times a month. So is it really such a negative that it's LHD? I don't think so, but people are fickle and funny in their ways of thinking I find.

As for the Gnose, I think many people passing judgement haven't seen a proper 1 in person to fully appreciate it. Some things don't photograph well, for example when I first showed my wife photos of an FD3S RX-7 I was looking to buy, she was not that impressed. Then when we saw the car in person she totally changed her mind. I think the 2D vs 3D aspect is a real factor.

[xs10shl]

Oddly enough, in the US, a stock Fairlady Z will trade at a considerable premium to a 240Z of similar condition.

[HS30-H]

On 2/26/2024 at 3:13 AM, kats said:

That is why I am here, and my friends here. I want people to know whole range of our cars. I believe looking into various types of our cars make us fun to enjoy better.

And it is much appreciated, Kats. Your presence and participation on classiczcars has been invaluable and a vital conduit to helping us understand the cars themselves, the history behind them and the people who created them. You are one of their best ambassadors. Thank you.

 

It goes over a lot of heads but I've believe that, to properly appreciate and understand any single one of our cars, it is necessary to understand its siblings; the cars which were conceived, designed, engineered and produced alongside it.

I own both RHD and LHD versions. Japanese market, UK market and USA market S30-series Z variants. Taking each one of them completely apart and going through the process of reassembly is both fascinating and educational. It is possible to observe the great efforts the designers and engineers went to in ensuring that each variant worked well whilst accommodating the other variants in their contemporary family. Look closely and you can see details that were incorporated in the fabric of the cars in order to cater for one particular market or one particular variant, hiding in plain sight. A good example being the preparation for factory air conditioning that was present on all models whilst it was only available in one of them. Most owners don't notice...

Kats, we have discussed in the past how ownership of both Domestic and Export variants has helped both of us to understand and appreciate the cars more fully, right? It would be great if more owners and enthusiasts could share that experience or, if not, at least take note of the possibilities it offers. 

   

[HS30-H]

13 hours ago, Gav240z said:

As for the Gnose, I think many people passing judgement haven't seen a proper 1 in person to fully appreciate it. Some things don't photograph well...

Agreed, but - beyond that - 99% of the discussion around the Grande Nose of the HS30-H model seems to treat it as though it was some kind of aesthetic makeover. It misses the whole point.

Its real reason for existence was to homologate parts to which other - more extreme - parts could be hung off for race purposes. The fact that some of us (me included) find the HS30-H model attractive is probably by-the-by. It could be argued that the 240ZG was somewhat out of date in its styling, consciously or sub-consciously referencing the curves of 60s cars like the Ferrari 275 GTB when the more angular Ferrari 365 GTB had already outdated it in aerodynamic terms as well as aesthetics. 

The homologation specials which came after them for Group 4 and then Group B would look more angular and more brutal, but that in itself has its attractions.          

[RIP260Z]

14 hours ago, Gav240z said:

Most people won't be driving the car more than a handful of times a month. So is it really such a negative that it's LHD?

Over here in the UK, there seems to be "have to do this" attitude that an imported LHD has to be converted to RHD (cost/finding parts) when again, only driving the S30 a few times a month/ a 1-2000 miles a year ( and some of that likely will be on the motorway [freeway]).

Then a lot of the time the windscreen wipers aren't changed over. I think its due to higher prices for a RHD model here in the UK, but that is financial speculating rather than S30 ownership. its still a L model at the end of the day.

 

[Gav240z]

10 hours ago, HS30-H said:

Its real reason for existence was to homologate parts to which other - more extreme - parts could be hung off for race purposes. The fact that some of us (me included) find the HS30-H model attractive is probably by-the-by. It could be argued that the 240ZG was somewhat out of date in its styling, consciously or sub-consciously referencing the curves of 60s cars like the Ferrari 275 GTB when the more angular Ferrari 365 GTB had already outdated it in aerodynamic terms as well as aesthetics. 

Yes, and I agree the G-nose definitely gives the car a Ferrari 275 GTB look.

[kats]

Hi,

I have been doing some work for my 240ZG. I felt I should take care for my ZG because it looked dirty and old. I don’t have money to do full restoration for it so I decided to do easy job by myself like painting and cleaning. 

Also I have my parts re-plated by a professional shop. Did you know here in Japan most of plating shops don’t do gold zinc plate for the local environmental regulations. I found one very far from my town, they do great but very very expensive compare to a several years ago.

I couldn’t separate each of the exhaust components because they are all rusted and melted each other.
So it seemed to me the only choice was taking off the exhaust manifold with all the components together. 
 

I tried to take the front pipe from the manifold apart, I snapped off the stud bolts. The rusted bolts annoyed me a lot.

Please see the original unique nut for fixing the exhaust front pipe. I want to use it again.

 I saw orange paint brushedat the left front of the block, is it a factory marking?

I see ‘ 2-6 ‘ on the bonnet catch and the door lock mechanism as my ZG seemed left the factory on June or July 1972.

As well as matching date shown on the heater box decal, the seat belt tag and the coding on the glass.

Kats

 

Edited June 3 by kats

[kats]

Painting the block, masking is always fun to do. 
I couldn’t stop my self to paint the bolt fixing the engine mount bracket. If I had extra genuine marked ‘7’ bolts I would have re-plated it. The outcome is so so, I sprayed fluorescence green over metallic yellow. Finally I put just a little bit of metallic purple.

Please see the engine mount bracket, it has over spray of blue, is is original?

And the date shown on the center muffler and the rear muffler ‘72 07’ they make the car so proud as a survivor. In Japan so many people wanted to replace it with a dual exhaust pipes. 

I think it looks odd to see some very bright parts in the non restored engine bay. 
 

Kats

Edited June 3 by kats

[Patcon]

That's all great progress. The plating looks really good!

In almost 40 years I don't think I've ever take the exhaust manifold/down pipe joint loose without breaking at least one of those studs.

[kats]

Thanks Patcon! 
I am enjoying to see your restoration of your 240Z, keep good work!

Kats

PS Nissan blue is still available from local dealership or some internet vendors. You can order with the parts number 10128-90026.

Or in Japan only?