Grinding - Sanding - POR - Painting

[CoastGuardZ]

Hey E-

Negative... I meant what I typed... but this is coming from an extreme amature in the air tool world, my thing is multi million dollar radars and transmitters ... "I'm with the government and I'm here to help"

The compressor I have is rated at 4.9 SCFM @ 40 psi / 3.5 @ 90.

http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?cat=Compressors+%26+Air+Tools&pid=00916644000&vertical=TOOL&subcat=Air+Compressors+%26+Inflators&BV_UseBVCookie=Yes

Which is apparently the lowest model that Sears "recommends" for die grinders and what not. They have some silly star rating and this one is a 4, It seems like I need a 6 or better to do this "right". I don't want to complain too much about it though, as it was a gift (read: $$free). The tool box situation is UNSAT. I've got more tools than storage, stuff strewn about and no good way to organize... which makes for a cluttered inefficent work space and that's how tools get lost. The wife sees this so I get the blessing for the box... on the other hand she sees a nearly new compressor that ran two nail guns just fine last spring when we re-roofed our house. Couple that with a new baby and driveway that needs to be re-paved, which I'm forgoing the widening of to get these air tools, more Z parts and her new vacuum, and she's not real keen to hand over the check book. Not a bad thing though, one of us has to make sure we save enough for junior's college fund :nervous:

She'll come around when she has to listen to the compressor running non-stop and me cussing up storm about lack of air. :tapemouth

Thanks again,

Nate

(I'm looking at compressors on-line right now :rambo:

[CoastGuardZ]

E-

Any recommendations on what to look for in a compressor? Being in the military and moving every 2 to 4 years I need something portable yet capable... I might be able to swing it for Christmas...

[EScanlon]

I know the "fun" of PCS'ing every few years, although I was lucky and was stationed at one AFB for my two tours.

Trying to pin it down to ONE compressor model, or type, or characteristic gets tricky, as it can be most subjective.

Sears' recommendation is to go for something with a SCFM Rating of at least equal or up to 150% of the highest requirement tool you will be using. This is a fair enough "rule-of-thumb" for most buyers.

The biggest thing to consider is how LONG you'll be using a tool for each time you do use it. I've seen grinders that require between 3-5 cfm at 90 psi, and won't work well at lower pressures. Other tools are best operated at low rpm's , but require larger volumes of air to perform well. The D/A's I linked to require 8 and 14 CFM @ 90 PSI. Clearly very few compressors are pumping out that kind of volume.

For the average home user who intends on doing his own bodywork, I would first recommend that you get the largest tank you can in order to maximize the volume of compressed air. Second would be to maximize the horsepower of the compressor in order to re-fill that tank quickly. Third to decide if it will be stationary or needs to be mobile in order to determine whether 220v or 120v can be used. Some motors can be converted from 120 to 220 and back, some are strictly one voltage. The 220 voltage will usually require an electrician to come in and connect it, although I've heard of people using electric dryer cords to plug in directly to a 220 outlet used for dryers. (This is not something to learn "on the fly".)

Since you're in the military (as I was when I bought my compressor), pick one that has wheels to wheel it around, is convertable to 220, but is wired for 120. A vertical tank is preferable over a horizontal tank for amount of FLOOR area it will take up, although being taller it won't fit under many tool benches or shelves. A vertical tank will also be faster to purge of water condensing inside the tank (and believe me you will be doing this every day you use the compressor) and most importantly will evacuate most of the water. However, I wouldn't pass up a horizontal tank if it was a good deal.

The tank you currently have will work....but just barely. It WILL be running on and on trying to catch up. Just take a break every few minutes or so, allow the compressor to catch up (shut off) and then work some more. Every so often (you decide on how long), take a longer break, do something else and allow the compressor and motor to cool off.

The only thing I could think of to help your compressor, is for you to buy a secondary tank for additional volume. If you decide to do this, be sure to connect them with tubing that is rated for the max pressure of the compressor. This also is not an area to "play" with.

So, as you can see, it's hard to say....this one. All you can really say, is "This is what I would do or did".

So, FWIW

Enrique

[CoastGuardZ]

Alright folks here is an update...

I have since purchased the mini angle die grinder, sander and the DA. I also picked the tool box, which I must say is quite impressive, especially for the money.

I just came in from the garage and getting to play with one of the new toys... and yes E, you were right. I will need a bigger compressor, but for these small spot repairs the one I have now should work just fine. I can see that this compressor will not allow me to do a whole panel or more at my own pace.

I need to purchase a whole bunch o' sanding discs... any good sources of supply?

Here's what I'm dealing with... I got holes! This SUCKS! Anyone suggest a good plan of attack that is just short of cutting and welding?

Nate

[hls30.com]

Nate,

Sorry for the delay, The stuf I was testing did not work out-even with extended testing.

If you really want a stop gap repair I would saturate the entire area in Metal Ready or Ospho or any of the Phosphoric acid rust eaters(even Naval Jelly-to keep close to the Coast Guard theme!)-especially the inside of the panel.

Then I would tap in the area(dent the holes in) and use fiberglass to seal the area, and get the body work as close as you can without using conventional filler(bondo/bog) then cove it with a high build primer and color coat it.

The Fiberglass will keep water from the metal, and be fairly easily removeable later on. By not using any bondo, you don't put anyhing in the area that will absorb and retain water to add to your issues. By using a Phosphoric acid to treat the rust from the indside, you will leave a Zinc Phosphate coating in an area that will be somewhat protected from contact, and the coating will help prevent new rust from forming in the area.

Hopefully that will give you the temporary fix you asked for without getting to involved or adding too much to the mess to ultimately be cut out and replaced!

Will

[Chris'sZ]

You guys are awesome...! I'm right where you are Nate...Little holes and all.

Also just looking for a temp. fix 'till I can totally restore. Pardon my ignorance, but where can I find Phosphoric acid?

Thanks,

Chris

[hls30.com]

Home Depot and Lowes sell it(Ospho) with the chemicals on the paint aisle (clear or translucent bottle green or blue in color).

Every autobody/paint store sells at least one version of it, or you can buy it from POR15.com(Metal Ready).

WIll

[EScanlon]

Sorry Will, I have to disagree with you.

The Fiberglass is what I would also have recommended a few years back and would have been ok....for a while.

Since then, I've been introduced to POR-15 and the Power Mesh fabric that they use.

Nate:

In a fast nutshell, that rust you have didn't start on the OUT-side of the car, it started from the IN-side. The inside I'm referring to is the interior side of the rocker panel.

The proper repair is to cut out that bad metal and replace it with new metal.

You can confirm the lack of or the integrity of the rocker panel by looking at the backside of the panel through the circular openings in the INTERIOR rocker panel. The holes are for strength of the metal, but they allow you to see through to the inner side of the rocker. Using a strong flashlight, look in there and evaluate what you see.

If there is a ton of rust...replacement is the best and possibly ONLY repair for this.

If there is NO rust, and only in the rust-through spots do you see any rust on the interior of the panel, then you might be able to do what I'm going to suggest. How much rust you do accept is up to you.

Prep the inner part of the rocker panel as directions for POR specify. Use a nozzle to get the marine clean well inside the rocker. Then the Metal Prep. I know some may shudder at the thought of using a hose and water in the inner part of the rocker panel, but there ARE drain holes specifically for this purpose.

Then when you're ready to apply the POR, first use some tape on the OUTside of the holes. Duct or masking ... it doesn't matter, you're building a "dam" for the POR you'll paint from the inside.

Then paint the POR using a syphon nozzle and you'll protect whatever is left of the metal and at the same time "replace" the outer sheet metal...at least the part that's missing. Then you should be able to finish the rest of the bodywork.

FWIW

E

[CoastGuardZ]

The proper repair is to cut out that bad metal and replace it with new metal.

I concur. 100% in fact. On the other hand I am not yet prepared to do a full resto on the car. I'm looking for the best temporary fix until I am at that point, which it sounds like the Power Mesh may be the answer.

You can confirm the lack of or the integrity of the rocker panel by looking at the backside of the panel through the circular openings in the INTERIOR rocker panel. The holes are for strength of the metal, but they allow you to see through to the inner side of the rocker. Using a strong flashlight, look in there and evaluate what you see.

So if I understand you correctly, I should be able to access a panel with "holes" in it by ripping out the interior?

Then paint the POR using a syphon nozzle...

Please bare with me, my painting experience is limited to brushes, rollers and rattle cans. What's a syphon nozzle, and where to get it? I have to drive like an hour to get to Harbor Freight. I have a Wal-Mart (not even a Super WM) and a few small hardware stores nearby and a Lowes about a half hour away... and these times are w/o traffic because we have none! Will the POR render the syphon nozzle garbage afterwards or will it be cleanable? Just curious since POR is suppsed to be so hardcore?

FWIW

E

Your input is worth it's weight in gold. :nervous: Thanks E.

Nate

[hls30.com]

E, Nate, if you use POR at this stage in a bandaid, you will have a hell of a time getting it out to do it right later on!

I have tried removing POR to prep for welding in that very area, I suggested fiberglass because it is a temporary fix(just like a bandaid) If you get POR in the area, you will have one of two things happen when you revisit it.

1) serious proiblems with removal-the POR will fuse the overlaping pieces of metal together meaning several layers will have to be cut out because it is no longer as simple as drilling out the spotwelds a layer at a time.

2) Welding on a surface to which POR has been applied will burn the POR off meaning you now have very tight pockets of untreated metal in the repair-a large part of what caused the rust problem in the first place!

My suggestion was to stop the growth of rust without complicating the future proper repair with the current effort. The inner rust treatment would have the same issues, but treat a piece of folded steel with Ospho and weld on the back side then open the fold treat a piece of folded steel with ospho then POR and weld the back side and see what I mean. Your advice could give a great permanent repair-under the conditions you stated, but that is NOT what Nate asked for, he wanted a cosmetic repair with rust stabilization that would not interfere with a later serious metal replacement-unless I read wrong. My RX gave him what he asked for a repair that would hold, stop rust and be much more removeable than anything involving POR!

Will

[beezee]

http://www.nortonautomotive.com/media/documents/S0000000000000001044/SpeedGrip%20Auto%20Line%20of%20Adhesives%207663.pdf

Nate, Theres metal adhesives available to bond metals vs welding.You could use this to put the metal back in your panel surface repair.

[beezee]

http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/panel-adhesives-81978.html Some testimonial on the Norton metal adhesive. Rick