Grinding - Sanding - POR - Painting

[CoastGuardZ]

...but that is NOT what Nate asked for, he wanted a cosmetic repair with rust stabilization that would not interfere with a later serious metal replacement-unless I read wrong. My RX gave him what he asked for a repair that would hold, stop rust and be much more removeable than anything involving POR!

Will, you understood me perfectly. I need a temp. repair that will prevent further damage/corrosion, yet not interfere later on when a "real" bodyman cuts out and replaces the dog leg (or any other of the small spots on the car just like it).

You provide a compelling argument and all the materials are locally procureable.

What about spraying paint or rustoleum in there after the ospho?

Anyone have a source of supply on those sanding discs? The best I have found was about $50-60 for a box of 50.

Now I just have to knock out some of these around the house / honey-do items so I can get back to the Z! :tapemouth

Nate

[CoastGuardZ]

http://www.nortonautomotive.com/media/documents/S0000000000000001044/SpeedGrip%20Auto%20Line%20of%20Adhesives%207663.pdf

Nate, Theres metal adhesives available to bond metals vs welding.You could use this to put the metal back in your panel surface repair.

Rick, correct me if I'm wrong... but I did not see anything there for patching holes in metal. Only for holes in plastic or "glueing" two metal panels together.

Nate

[EScanlon]

Will: While your repair may seem minor, in my experience the possibilities of getting back to the area "in a short while" usually ends up being YEARS later. That means that that "cosmetic" repair, is akin to using speed-tape over the hole and painting over it.

Fiberglass has no rust-proofing properties at all. In fact, if there is ANY rust on the surface you apply it on, it will continue to rust very happily protected from the environment....but still rusting. If you etch the metal, then you may prolong the amount of time before the rust starts / continues to rust, but there is NO rust-proofing going on here.

While the comment about POR being difficult to remove is appropriate....after all it is due to this tenacious grip that it is such a good product...it doesn't address that it CAN be removed. Whether by grinding, sanding or by using the stripper sold by the POR folks, it CAN be removed and you can then proceed to further bodywork.

My concern with Nate's rocker panel is that what is NOT visible is how far gone the rocker and dog leg are. This may make both of the processes in discussion a totally moot point. If he had reported that he had seen the inside of the rocker and dog leg and said there was no rust there, then it might be a different story. As it stand, in my experience and I know a LOT of us here share that experience, that dog leg is close to GONE. The rocker may or may not be in the same shape, but I'll wager that it may also be failing. The possibility of saving any of that metal for any length of time is going to be strongly dependent on the type of repair you attempt. The PROPER method...is metal replacement. Nate has said that that is not in the picture now, so obviously time and money must be a consideration.

So, which repair is the "best"?

Well, to address fiberglass and it's application and further bodywork required:

1. You'll have to grind ALL of the rust off and leave a ground surface that has extremely rough even sharp scratches in it.

2. Then you need to tap in the metal deep enough to accept the patch and give you area to blend the repair in smoothly. This means literally taking a hammer to your car to pound that dog leg's surface in. Be careful as you could cause OTHER problems.

3. Apply your fiberglass, and hope you get some in to the inside of the metal which is where the rust is coming from.

4. Sand and smooth the fiberglass, and apply bondo or surface filler as needed to blend in the repair.

5. Paint.

The POR method I'm suggesting is:

1. Degrease with Marine Clean both the outside and the inside of the rocker. This does entail removal of the interior vinyl and the seat to give you room to work, but it will make things a ton easier. It will also make it easier to rinse the MC and the MP.

2. Etch the metal with the Metal Prep and rinse, then allow to dry. If you wanted you could blow air into it or apply a heater to speed it up.

3. Put some tape on the outside of the dog leg. This is to build a "dam" which will stop the POR from just dripping out.

4. Spray the POR into the rocker with a syphon spray nozzle. This is a simple air nozzle that has been fitted with a venturi tube at the tip to allow it to suck up fluids and then spray them. I forget the part number but it's readily available from Harbor Freight.

5. When set, remove the tape from the outside.

6. Now when you look at the holes from the outside, they will be very close to the surface of the surrounding sheet metal. Now the repair will only be using a very thin skin of bondo to finish the repair, and allow you to go to paint.

Years down the road, the fiberglass will literally....fall off. And it's true that it's removal will be greatly simplified. In fact, it may take the REST of the metal that is there now, in the form of rust dust. There won't be much "cutting" of the metal, it will be so corroded that it will simply be ground off. Then you have to hope that the surrounding structural metal hasn't been compromised by the rust you left behind in not treating the interior of the rocker panel. This simple "cosmetic" fix may leave you needing major transplant surgery later....or even cause the car to be junked.

The POR on the other hand, unless it doesn't live up to what I've currently experienced, WILL require the metal to be cut out. This is because the metal will have been put into a state of "suspended animation" by the POR. Having metal there that can be cut, whether by a shear or a cutting disk, is much more preferable than to grind the dust off. Then, if necessary, you use the POR stripper they sell and remove any remnants of the POR you need to remove, and continue with your panel replacement....on steel that is still relatively sound. Yes, this may be more towards a "permanent" repair, but it won't be the lick and a promise that the fiberglass repair would be.

I was taught to do the BEST job you could do, at that time, for the amount of time and money you could devote to it. There will always be additional things you would like to do, and time and money you would like to devote to it. Doing a half-baked repair is a guarantee of further problems down the road.

So, FWIW

E

[hls30.com]

E,

Your RX is great, and I understand the exponential nature of "round to its", but, as a TEMPORARY fix, I think mine meets the temporary yours chooses to ignore. On the rust treatment. The fiberglass is there to bridge the gaps and provide a durable cover for the Zinc phosphate-it is the only rust protection in my formula because of the fact when exposed to welding temperatures it will not leave the issues that "half baked" POR (and Rustoleum) will in areas that can't readily be cleaned before the final repair is made.

Will

PS If it was me, I would be cutting out and replacing the metal now-there isn't that much more work to that than this-though there is welding...or panel bonding.

[geezer]

PS If it was me, I would be cutting out and replacing the metal now-there isn't that much more work to that than this-though there is welding...or panel bonding.

I think you hit the nail right on the head with this statement Will. In all actuality, from a cost point of view it is better repair it properly now, instead of a quick fix. Just the fact that Nate could stop the progression of rust now instead of putting it off, doesn't mean he wants to get into that far either. Although he would certainly thank himself years down the road.

I just finished sandblasting a Mopar K-Frame that had 3 coats of Por on it, in order to modify it. It comes off but is harder to remove than anything else I've ever blasted. I wouldn't be too concerned about using it and having to remove it later. The mesh is a different story maybe, I can't say.

[beezee]

Nate, After cleaning up and treating your inner rocker ,using the panel adhesive you could bond a sheetmetal patch over the solid area of your rocker without welding a patch risking panel warpage A light grind and a skim of filler would finish the outside panel. This is what I was refering to.Mine needs a repair at the wheel lip and small area of the rocker I have the MSA repair dogleg and thinking of trying the panel adhesive to do this repair. BTW Ron, I have a 496 stroked Super Bee just finishing a 10 year rotissorie restor ation

[geezer]

Hey Rick - I read the Norton's link and testimonials. It sounds impressive and might be just the ticket for a lot of guys. I have never seen it in use or the results of. I still prefer working with lead, rather than bondo. I was schooled in a different era. It could be the means to give Nate the easy way out. I sure would like to see pics of the work. Wonder if it adheres to Por15 well?

383 stroked to 496! - Youre the second Mopar big block stroker dude I came across in the last few weeks. The other was at the Z swap meet at Whitehead Performance in Toronto. His will be in this/next issue of Mopar Collector and is in a 66 Valiant.

Sorry for the deviation guys.

[CoastGuardZ]

While I am enjoying the pissing match here fellas, I'd like to clear up a few things...

1a) I would much rather cut out and replace every piece of cancer infested metal on my beloved japanese tin-can, but it does not fit into my current budget and situation.

1b) Lord knows the easy fix is to drop the car off at a very experienced paint and body shop and let them do it all. I just don't have the $5k-10k to have the show quality / better than original work done to the car right now.

1c) I have no intention of paying a bodyman $500 or more (probably much more) to do the patch work just to turn around in 3-5 years and have the whole car finished by another bodyman.

2) I do not want to place (ie: glue) a piece of metal on top of a panel... I would rather replace metal, but as stated that's later.

3) I wish to halt the rust in it's tracks and prevent any further deterioration of the affected areas.

4) The repair is temporary... not temporary like 3 months, but temporary like 3 years. For those of you not in the military and don't understand why I don't just tear the whole car down and restore it over the next three years, this is just simply not feasible. You see, I will be moving in about 15 months to God only knows where, which means that I can't move a car on a rotisserie along with it's associated 20+ boxes of parts around ... let alone trying to sell a house that's full of car parts and a shell in the garage. Well that and it's too fun to drive to be torn apart for 3 years :classic:

After re-reading all the previous posts I believe that the POR-15 route will be my best bet. I thank all for their candor and valuable input. I shall keep y'all posted as this portion of the project moves forward.

Nate