Replating Hardware

[ph240]

Does anyone know where I can buy new gold cadmium bolts & nuts? Or do you know of a company that will recoat my old hardware?

[DatsunZGuy]

Never used this company, but they do have special pricing for club members.

http://www.restoration-specialties.net/Plating.htm

[26th-Z]

Paul,

There are tons of articles on site about buying new vs replating either sending it out or doing it yourself. You will find that gold cadmium plating is rather difficult, but there are people around who do it. Several companies sell stainless steel kits for complete areas of the car and I also know of guys who have tried to get Nissan hardware. It all is an option, depending on what you expect from your project.

I cleaned my hardware in a rock tumbler, wire brushed it all, cleaned it all up, and sent it out. I went through three different companies before I found the finish I really wanted and learned a lot about how to prepare the old hardware to be restored. You will find lots of stuff searching the internet.

[Nissanman]

If it is the gold finish you want, then it is more likely that you should be seeking gold chromate.

This is the passivating finish that is done immediately a part has been freshly zinc plated.

I recently bit the bullet and started up my own hobby plating setup.

I'm still learning and some parts are very difficult to do, but I have successfully done gold chromate on some weird shaped Roadster parts.

New fasteners, I suggest, would be done with this finish.

[jmanz6]

I am the guy who owns restoration-specialties and yes, we cna replate your nuts and bolts. Let me know what you have and I will work up a price for you. If it's just nuts and bolts, then it will be pretty cheap as those are done as a batch. I do ask that you tell me if there are any coatings such as paint, ceramic, or others as those parts will require more attention and that can add to the cost. Also, please try to get as much of the grease off as you can before I get them. You can email me at jason ( at ) rocketdogmotorsports ( dot ) com

[Carl Beck]

Speaking of Electroplating, when you are trying to find the right company to do the job you want done - it is very important that you know specifically, technically and exactly what you want. Otherwise the Sales People will blow you off - and sell you what they have, not necessarily what you really wanted.

Most plating shops and the people that sell their services will tell you that the original parts were Zinc plated - NOT TRUE. They will tell you that "yes" they do Cad. plating - NOT TRUE, they'll use Zinc anyway, then they will say that it doesn't matter, or that they are the same etc. NOT TRUE.

Cadmium is NOT Zinc. Cadmium provides longer lasting protection and higher durability rates than Zinc. They can be close, but they are not the same.

In the 60's and early 70's - Nissan Suppliers originally Cadmium Plated the items, then processed them through a Yellow Chromate bath. This results in the more or less gold looking part that has a rainbow of color flowing uniformly through it just under the surface of the gold color.

The "original" finish that you want, if you want a near perfect restoration has to created in the same plating process, and even more importantly that final Yellow Chromate bath has to be exactly controlled. In the Mass Production of the original parts these processes are normally automated, so batch after batch the quality and appearance of the finish is uniform. During a "re-plating" process, done on very limited quantities of parts, at smaller plating shops, that process is most likely going to be done by human hands. Leave the Cad. plated parts in the Yellow Chromate bath for too short or too long a time - and the final finish will look quite different.

High quality re-plating takes time and costs serious money, but high price alone doesn't equal high quality.

Cadmium is a very heavy metal, and therefore also very toxic in concentrated solutions to the environment. For that reason, the use of Cadmium in electroplating has been severely limited in the electroplating industry in the U.S. Severely limited, but not eliminated - plating companies that do MilSpec. quality and Space quality work, can and do still use Cadmium if specified - - it is however VERY Expensive. (two to three times the cost of using Zinc)

Most shops now substitute Zinc for Cadmium. Both Zinc and Cadmium result in a very light gray metallic coating - that are then subjected to the bath of Yellow Chromate that gives them that "Gold" finish we all recognize. Nonetheless Zinc and Cadmium absorb the Yellow Chromate at different rates and to different degrees. If the person controlling the process is very experienced, and very watchful, if the chemical solutions are carefully controlled... they can get Zinc plated parts to come out of the Chromate bath - with a final finish that is very very close to that of the Cad. plated parts... But high quality process control takes time and costs money...

Does all this really matter? That's entirely up to you. Remember too that the final quality of the parts coming out of the plating processes -can be no better than the quality of the parts going in. Every nut, bolt, screw, washer and component part have to be clean, with uniform surfaces. Pitted, scarred and worn parts going in, will be just the same coming out.

FWIW,

Carl B.

[HS30-H]

Most plating shops and the people that sell their services will tell you that the original parts were Zinc plated - NOT TRUE.

In the 60's and early 70's - Nissan Suppliers originally Cadmium Plated the items, then processed them through a Yellow Chromate bath.

NOT TRUE. .

Carl,

Nissan's suppliers ( and there were many ) didn't all use Cadmium before the 'Yellow Chromate' ( 'gold passivate' ), and quite a number of them actually did use Zinc.

People who are familiar with original Nissan parts for models other than the S30-series Z could tell you that some suppliers even used both from time to time, depending both on what they were making and when they were making it. This should not really be all that much of a surprise to us when we take into account the circumstances and the period in question.

So to make the sweeping generalisation that all of it was Cadmium is not really a good idea.

Just don't try to pin me down and make me tell you which is which on any particular car, as I have absolutely no idea!

Alan T.

[Carl Beck]

Hi Alan:

Good point - my bad....

Also, since the original question was ..."...where can I buy new gold cadmium bolts & nut"...

I should also have pointed out the fact that many of the new replacement nuts, bolts, washers etc. sold by Nissan are now in fact Zinc plated first...Buy enough NOS parts and directly compare them with the replacement parts manufactured years later and you can see the slight difference.

The price we all pay for Environmental controls.

FWIW,

Carl B.

[Carl Beck]

I recently bit the bullet and started up my own hobby plating setup.

Be careful there Nissanman!!

Years ago, one of our (Honeywell Aerospace) retired Master Machinist's son purchased a basket case classic car project. Car completely disassembled, boxes and boxes of parts all over the place. Of course all the chrome parts as well as many bits and pieces had to be re-plated. His son was sending the parts out to a shop a few hundred miles away - paying serious money for the work.

When his Dad started looking at the quality of the work coming back - he remarked that it was very poor in his opinion. When his son told him the work was done by what was supposed to be one of the better shops doing "show quality chrome"... his Dad told him he could do a better job in the garage than that!.

Within three months of that exchange - Dad had set up a metal finishing and home plating capability in the garage. As friends of the son started to see the quality of Dad's work vs the "professional shops" - - they all wanted Dad to do their parts as well.

Long story - short - three years later Dad had 35 employees, two full time Chemists and a very large plating business. He was also doing MilSpec and Space Qualified plating for several aerospace and defense industries here in Florida...

So be careful - I'd hate to see a Retired Gentleman sucked back into the fray -

kind regards,

Carl B.

[jmanz6]

When replating nuts and bolts it's important to remember the quality of the finish is dependent on the quality of the parts you start with. If the bolt heads are all pitted, the plating will look a little dull becasue the light reflects differently. Zinc and Cad plating isn't like chrome where you use a copper layer to fill in any imperfections. You platte over the bare metal and you will see the imperfections. If you rounded the corners of the bolt head when you removed it, then you will still have rounded corners when it's done. I ahve plated many parts for Datsun people and all have been very happy with the results. If anyone doubts my ability to do quality work, then use someone else. I do this as a favor to the Datsun community because I know it's hard to find someone to do this work. I use a professional plater that I have a special arrangement with to give me a pricing structure that the individual restorer can live with and I can make a little money off of as well for my time. I tried to do it at home for a while but to get consistent results, you need a much larger set up than the home user can justify.

[BD240Z]

Paul,

Ty to find an outfit that has a barrel plater, this is how I got mine done. A barrel plater is just that, a barrell. The parts get put into the barrell, the barrell rotates in the various baths and the parts get plated.

If the supplier has a large enough barrell, you can also get a variety of brackets, linkages, springs, etc. done at the same time/one price because with barrell plating it's typically one lot charge. The only pain was cataloging all of the nuts, bolts, washers so I'd know where they went on the car once I got them back. My one-time cost for plating was $88

Because of environmental regulations, CAD plating is being replaced with zinc plating for most industries, (ASTM B-633). It's getting harder to get a new permit for CAD plating not that it's easy to get one for zinc. There are a number of engineering drawings that still call for CAD, these are mostly military or government drawings. My point is that you'll have an easier time, (and probably less expensive) finding a supplier that does zinc plating. Zinc plated hardware will give you sufficient corrosian protection.

Ace hardware has a variety of metric fasteners but they use clear zinc, not the yellow. As pointed out, I also recommend you clean your hardware thoroughly prior to sending it off for plating.

Bruce

[ezzzzzzz]

I use Royal Silver and Virginia Plating (located in Norfolk and Newport News) in Virginia. You can find them using www.anywho.com. I had my hardware yellow zinc plated at Virginia and chrome done at Royal). Cadium is very expensive anymore due to EPA regs and arsenic used in the process. The results is very impressive. Since my Z never sees rain I expect the finish to last a long long time. You should ba able to locate a plating shop in your area or down in the Charlotte area.