New "F" car on Ebay

[gogriz91]

I like some VWs but no one strikes me as being more valuable than a factory restored 30+ year old Z. I would have to get a part time job on weekends to cover paying the Z off and own both but to just let it go as a trade in would be very difficult for me to do if I had gone through what it took to get one when they restored them.

[hls30.com]

I like some VWs but no one strikes me as being more valuable than a factory restored 30+ year old Z...

Hey, quit stirring the freakin' pot!!

Nissan NEVER has had a Factory Restoration.

Those cars-as beautifully restomoded as they are-are a part of what should be called the Nissan Marketing Department Restoration Program.

1)The last time any of the USA Zs with the plaques from the Nissan paid for restoration saw the Factory was way back in the early 70z... There is no such thing as a Nissan factory restoration program-the factory is in Japan! How can you have a factory restoration without going to the factory, or having the factory effectively moved. No Nissan payrol was used directly on the cars except on final pre and post restoration inspection and moving the cars to dealers-and maybe some warranty work after they were sold.

2)Not one of the cars was completely restored, every single one had a plaque installed in the console that never was put in the first Z in the early 70s-meaning by definition all were modified! That is not to say individual systems within the cars were not restored-they were, and beautifully! But a restoration is a restoration, and a modification is not!

3)The only direction for the entire method of the restoration of the program cars is a thirty something page fax that went out to several consumer restoration shops-not even a proper internal Nissan document!

Chris...jump in with correction/comments any time!

As a recap, Nissan Japan was invloved with only some parts sourcing for the program, virtually No Nissan Factory labor was used, the Factorys(even doemstic locations) certianly werent used, and virtually everything was handled on this side of the ocean, and by a third party for Nissan-if the factory restored those cars they are restoring mine as well, even as I type this they are tirelessly working in the garage...or is that the Keebler Elves...

WIll

[HS30-H]

Oh dear. The alarm has been triggered..........:paranoid:

[Bonzi Lon]

Did anyone catch in the description it was a Tan 4 door with a Tan interior?

Bonzi Lon

[hls30.com]

Did anyone catch in the description it was a Tan 4 door with a Tan interior?

Bonzi Lon

You know, I have always thought the inside waz bigger than it looked!

I guess his is!

Will

[26th-Z]

As many of you know, I took great interest in this subject two years ago and compiled quite a bit of information about the Vintage Z restoration program. I was interested in the restoration technique employed by Nissan USA as well as what happened to the 40-odd cars that were produced. I discovered a very interesting story.

Most of the restorations were completed by PierreZ in Hawthorne, California. Several California restoration facilities became involved later in the program. Direct involvement would come from Classic Datsun Motorsports in Vista, Datsun Alley in Signal Hill, and Old Car Service in Huntington Beach.

Two articles written about the Vintage Zs describe them as “factory” restored insinuating to the uninformed reader that the cars were returned to the original Japanese factory for restoration. One article appeared in the June 1998 issue of “Road & Track” magazine entitled; “ Datsun 240Z, Factory Resurrected”. Interestingly, Douglas Kott reports a price of $29,950 which may have been the case 12 months after the Z-Store program began. An article that appeared in the March 1997 Z Car Club of Washington newsletter references a factory restoration. Phil Deushane, IAPA, discusses the unprecedented task of a factory restoration and resale of an original car. He refers to the “restoration shop” during a discussion of the logistics of such a task, however it is vague concerning whom is doing what. Interestingly, Marc Sayer reports in the summer '97 issue of “ZCar” magazine; “…Nissan would prefer for people to think of these cars as having come from Nissan rather than from a particular subcontractor, a sentiment I heartily endorse.”

Marc discusses the introduction of Pierre Perrot as reserved for the Vintage Z Rally; “I also think that Nissan wanted to make a big deal of the announcement of who the renovators were at the launch.”

[gogriz91]

Okay, so I dropped the F-bomb (This thread was low F-bomb count anyway considering the title) but my point is that Nissan was willing to commission the effort, see to it there was access to restoration parts, market then sell at Nissan dealerships 30+ year old cars which I'm guessing they've done with no other line since the inception of the company. All of that has an intrinsic value beyond driving into the nearest VW lot and driving off with a new Beetle, Touareg or Golf the value of which depreciated by 5-7% when you hit the pavement off the lot. Maybe it's moe accurate to say they were factory commissioned as opposed to factory restored? Doesn't change my arguement at the VW lot though.

Alan, nice picture BTW. One of my first but very vivid memories about first seeing an S30 was seeing a JP S30 car chase down two Skylines that were racing on the expressway in Okinawa in 1982. I wanted one after that and bought one as soon as I could afford it 4 years later.

[Carl Beck]

The Nissan Vintage Z Program: Can really be viewed as a small part of a far larger Public Relations and Marketing initiative intended to promote Nissan's Brand Name in America, launched by Nissan Motors Ltd., in an attempt to regain market share though increased sales in America.

Mr. Hanawa, taking over the reigns of leadership at Nissan Motors Ltd. in 1996, was faced with a very grim reality; Nissan Motors Ltd. was drowning in red ink, and on the verge of total collapse.

Mr. Hanawa was convinced that the Factory had lost touch with its Customers and in turn lost market share during the preceding two decades. Two major goals were critical to Nissan's survival at that point; reestablish a personal connection with Nissan's customers and look for a White Knight to help bail Nissan Motors Ltd. out before a total collapse.

Listening to his Customers in the American market - Mr. Hanawa realized that Nissan had lost its Flagship model - and that there was still great interest in its return - abet in a more affordable reincarnation. (the 96 300XZ TT's were priced at $48K in America)... He also realized that not only had Nissan lost its Flagship - it had NOT been designing and building the cars American's wanted to buy - rather it had been building the cars that Nissan wanted to sell; and they had not been at all competitive in a changing American market.

In an effort to re-connect to his American Customers - Mr. Hanawa approved the advertising budget that launched the campaign to return the image of both Mr. Katayama and the Datsun 240-Z to their rightful place in the memories of the American Market. This $200,000,000.00 investment in brand image was a complete reversal of Nissan's direction in America taken in the preceding 20 years.

By 1997 Mr. Hanawa had launched a complete model line redesign effort within Nissan Design, aimed at supplying new and exciting models to Nissan's beleaguered Authorized US Dealers, and he was actively courting a partnership with any automobile manufacturer capable of infusing the significant cash flow necessary to keep Nissan Motors Ltd. at least alive. He found that partner in Renault.... He also found a partner in the form of Carlos Ghosn, who agreed that Nissan Motors needed to reconnect with its Customers and exciting new models were one of the main answers to Nissan Motors Ltd. ills.

While Mr. Hanawa did get the spotlight to announce "We Will Build It".... It was Mr. Ghosn that was on stage as all the new and exciting models started to roll off the production lines of Nissan Motors....

Was the "Nissan Vintage Z Program" - a Factory Program? It most certainly was. It's real significances however is that it will serve as a bookmark for the larger strategic efforts originally launched by Mr. Hanawa, as he sacrificed himself to save Nissan. Authorizing a $200 Million Dollar PR and Marketing Campaign aimed at America, as well as directing a redesign of the complete model line-up - when you are already $20 Billion in debt was a huge gamble... but one that paid off.

Amazing what you can do if you don't care who gets the credit. Katayama was restored to his proper place of honor and success at Nissan, Mr. Ghosn got the credit for the turn-around {some of which he deserved} and Mr. Hawana retired into the setting sun...

FWIW,

Carl B.

[hls30.com]

The Nissan Vintage Z Program: Can really be viewed as a small part of a far larger Public Relations and Marketing initiative intended to promote Nissan's Brand Name in America, launched by Nissan Motors Ltd., in an attempt to regain market share though increased sales in America.

...

Was the "Nissan Vintage Z Program" - a Factory Program? It most certainly was. ...

FWIW,

Carl B.

Carl the information you provided in your post was absolutely terrific.

The only part I take any issue in is the last of the statements I snipped.

The Nissan Vintage Z Program had virtually nothing to do with the Nissan factory organization, otherwise the cars or sub-assemblies would have been done in one of them by Nissan Employees! The program had everything to do with Management by marketing, and in any company lead by consumers, the marketing department (with the "help" of the bean counters) tells the factory what to do. In this program, the neither the Management nor the marketing department didn't told the factory to do anything! Ask any Nissan factory employee at the time recent to the Vintage Z program what hand they had in restoring the cars-I'd bet even Kats(who managed to find not only the safety kit for a Z, OEM foglamps, and oh yes, a complete 432, and several employees) couldn't find one factory employee(manager or otherwise) that had even so much as a glimpse of a program 240Z in a Nissan Japan factory in the four years pre or post program. The management of the company said make it happen, but NOT to their own factorys!

I look at at this way: If I asked you(Carl Beck) "who restored your car?", would I expect you to say "me" if all you had done was drop it off, pick it up and write out a check? My expectation of you in that specific instance would be that you would give the name of the shop you gave the check to. I see a difference between actively doing something and simply paying for it to be done.

Nissan says that PierreZ, Classic Datsun Motorsports, Datsun Alley, and Old Car Service did the cars, and just to be sure they had no hidden message in that fact, not one of the named businesses shares an address of any of the listing for Nissan holdings in the USA at any time within 10 years of the Vintage Z Program. The Vintage Z Program was a Management through Marketing program that did NOT significantly involve any Nissan held Factory.

Will

[Carl Beck]

Hi Will:

I think I understand what you are saying - but I an lead to believe that you are off on a tangent. An argument that involves the proper or improper use of a common noun in a sentence structure. Or is it an argument that involves the possibility that any specific individual, might draw his or her own inferences from a sentence, when they define a common noun themselves, rather than drawing that definition from the context of the sentence, or paragraph within which it is used. {as common nouns are supposed to be defined}

Somewhat like arguing that the Ford 40-GT Program was not a Factory Program because none of them were build in a Ford Plant. Or that Nissan Factory Service Manuals aren't really Nissan Factory manuals because none of them were printed in Nissan's plants, let alone its manufacturing factories.

The use of the common noun "Factory", as a substitute to avoid the repetitious use of a proper noun such as "Nissan Motors", "Ford", "GM" etc - - is perfectly acceptable, broadly used by writers of all kinds and normally understood by the readers.

""Was the "Nissan Vintage Z Program" - a Factory Program? It most certainly was. ..."

Because the word Factory in the preceding sentence is a common noun, and the common noun is defined in the context of the sentence.... and the context of the sentence is "Nissan Vintage Z Program"... I seriously doubt that most enthusiasts would think that was a reference to some single production plant in Japan ie. a factory or the factory, rather than Nissan Motors Ltd.

If on the other hand - you take the word Factory completely out of the context of the sentence it was used in, therefore leaving its proper definition behind - - and instead substitute some other definition, or your own context such as "ask any Nissan factory employee"... then you can and do make all the counterpoints and arguments you just made.

The problem is - you have simply shown that the definition of a common noun is intended to be, and should in fact be defined by the context of the sentence or paragraph within which it is used.

Nonetheless, the Nissan Vintage Z Program was in fact a Factory Program, proven by the fact that it was the Nissan Vintage Z Program.... and was never referred to as the Nissan Shatai Koki Factory Program, nor the Nissan Shatai Koki, Kyoto nor Hiratsuka Factory Program etc.

The bottom line is - one should not substitute one's personal definition of a common noun, for the definition provided by the context of the writing within which that common noun is used. Doing so might lead to massive personal confusion almost anytime common nouns are encountered.

FWIW,

Carl B.

[Carl Beck]

Chris:

Can you tell us where the following statement came from?

"1971 Datsun 240Z Restored by Nissan Motor Company

On May 3rd at the U.S. Headquarters of Nissan Motors in Gardena, CA they introduced the first of the factory-refurbished 240 Z's. Introduced in 1970 the sticker price of a New 240Z was $3,526, the refurbished Z's will run $24,950. The cars, 200 of them, are being done by Pierre'Z Service Center in Southern CA. And will be sold through 10 Nissan dealers designated as "Z Stores".

After the Z's were selected from across the country (many came from Arizona and areas similar due to the more rust free condition) they are fully disassembled, then each part is inspected and inventoried. The unibody is inspected, repaired if necessary and then dipped and painted. From there any parts needing replaced are ordered (yes they have access to parts we don't). Everything is kept as original with the exception of tires, (hard to find the original size) and a few other suspension parts (busings, struts). The other difference is a small sticker on the quarter window and an emblem on the center console designating it as an official Nissan refurbished Z.

Nissan cut the restorations off after about 40 cars were completed. Short of their initial goal of 200 they still definatly managed to remind people of the part that the 240Z played in automotive history."

Just wondered where the Dealer quoted this from...

Carl B.

[hls30.com]

Carl,

I was taught to 'say what you mean and mean what you say', that means common nouns have no place in my typical use of language.

I see your point about syntax, but the 40-GT program had Ford employees(and Factory ones at that!) actually doing the work in a Ford owned facility (according to a Documentary produced by Ford on the project) ...Effectively moving the factory...

This much akin to saying the Federal Government built the space shuttle instead of Nasa Engineers built the space shuttle...There is an element of truth, but it does not convey the reality of the situation because of the ambiguity introduced by the common noun.

Kats and Alan said Japanese as a second language was too intense for most people because of similar plays on intent and context I suppose this would play havoc with those learning English!

My guess is that if you ask 1000 people on the street where a factory restoration would be done-the predominant answer would be in the factory, not an entirely third party facility designated by Corporate management-I guess I better put in a call to the truth in packaging guys on Nissan's spin Doctors!

Will