Kyb Gr2

[Ramses]

Does anyone know if these struts will work with the Ebich springs that motorsport sells? My spelling stinks. I am trying to purchase a set of spring and struts so I can install them on my car during the Memorial day weekend. I am thinking that I do not want to spend the money on the Tokiko adjustable struts and spring set, but they are a set and I have read that people on these forums like the set-up.

Should I bite the bullet and buy the HPK251. I know they are not the adjustable set, but they nonetheless are still a set. Anything will be better than what is currently on her.

[nwcubsman]

The folks at MSA should be able to match a set for you.

Arne replaced his brand new Mulhollands with the KYB. The Mulhollands were too stiff for him. They were similar to the Tokico HPs. Send him a PM and see if he will sell them to you. I know he was thinking of putting them in his yellow car, but he'd probably sell them. Better hurry, Arne doesn't mess around. If he has 2 hours, he'll switch them out.

[Arne]

KYB specifically recommends against using their GR-2 struts with lowering springs. I tried that once before (non-Datsun application) and the results were bad.

I'm a bit fan of matched sets of springs and shocks, as that way you are assured that the spring rates and shock valving are compatible.

And the Mulhollands I took out last Thursday are already spoken for. I actually arranged that before I ordered the KYBs.

[Ramses]

Hey Arne,

What springs are you going to use with the struts?

Is this a good price for the set?

http://www.jazzproparts.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=HPK251

I know that ebay has a set for cheaper.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=014&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=330117985621&rd=1,1

[Arne]

I honestly don't know if that's a good price or not, as I haven't been pricing that kind of package for my cars. But doesn't seem out of line at all to me.

I now have the KYBs in with my original factory springs. As expected, the ride height went up about 1/4" or so. I also have a set of the repro Euro springs I could put in if I want to firm it up a bit more. We'll see how it goes after I drive it this way a while. I have driven Gary's (beandip's) 240Z with KYBs and the Euro springs (cut down to adjust ride height) and the ride was still acceptable. So either the original or the Euro springs seem to work fine with the KYBs.

[Arne]

If he has 2 hours, he'll switch them out.

Two hours for spring changes. Changing the struts too adds another 30-45 minutes.

[=Enigma=]

I bought my HPK251 set on eBay from jdmwerks13 $355:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160115089546

There another guy (motorsportsdirect) now with them for cheaper. $322.21:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330117985621

Neither of these guys list a refund/return policy so be sure to ask before buying.

[AZ-240z]

I honestly don't know if that's a good price or not, as I haven't been pricing that kind of package for my cars. But doesn't seem out of line at all to me.

I now have the KYBs in with my original factory springs. As expected, the ride height went up about 1/4" or so. I also have a set of the repro Euro springs I could put in if I want to firm it up a bit more. We'll see how it goes after I drive it this way a while. I have driven Gary's (beandip's) 240Z with KYBs and the Euro springs (cut down to adjust ride height) and the ride was still acceptable. So either the original or the Euro springs seem to work fine with the KYBs.

Hi Arne,

I did pick up a set of those Mulholland struts for my car that I planned to match up with the repro stock U.S. springs. I wanted to ask you how you found the ride and car stance (height) as compared to stock. I am hoping for a ride and stance close to stock, but a ride a little firmer would be OK.

Thanks, Arne.

Dan

Original Owner, hls30-20419

[Arne]

Hi Arne,

I did pick up a set of those Mulholland struts for my car that I planned to match up with the repro stock U.S. springs. I wanted to ask you how you found the ride and car stance (height) as compared to stock. I am hoping for a ride and stance close to stock, but a ride a little firmer would be OK.

Thanks, Arne.

Dan

Original Owner, hls30-20419

Dan, the ride height was unchanged over stock. The overall effect on the ride was MUCH stiffer. Not harsh, but was VERY firm. On fairly smooth roads they were fine. Push the car a bit hard and the handling was great. Very controlled. But on roads with lots of frequent small bumps - like poorly patched asphalt, or concrete with lots of poor expansion joints - they quickly got bouncy.

As a best guess, I'd say the Mulhollands were apparently designed for a much higher spring rate than stock, as they have a whole lot of rebound damping. So if you hit one bump, no big deal - the struts were just a touch slow returning to their normal loaded extension. But hit several small bumps in a row - first bump the shock compresses a bit, then before it can rebound you his another bump and it compresses a bit more, and then you hit another...

A 240Z doesn't have much strut travel. With the weight of the driver in the car there's only about 1 3/4" before it hits the bump stops. So it wouldn't take too many bumps in a short time to effectively bottom out the strut and then you're riding on the bump stops. I've experienced this before on off-road bikes and ATVs when people crank up the adjustable rebound to far and then ride on a washboard road. In the bike world this is so common they have a term for it - they call it "packing" - as in, "I cranked in too much rebound and the rear shock packed down on that last trail." I'd never experienced this in a car before, and although I can't say for certain that was the issue, it sure felt the same.

On the other hand, I bought the Mulhollands on a whim, they seemed to be a cool vintage alternative. I didn't know it when I did so, but my red car ALREADY HAD Mulhollands in it when I bought it. No idea how old, or how many miles on them. But the old ones were not as bouncy as the new ones I put in. I did have a bad (seized) front strut that I knew about, which was why I planned to replace them. But the rears were still fine, and have either worn or broken in enough that they were totally useable with the stock springs. Now that they are all out of the car at once, the new rear Mulhollands are MUCH more difficult to extend by hand than the old ones. So I'm guessing that eventually they will calm down enough to work OK with the stock springs. I just don't have any idea how long that might take.

This has turned out to be a rather long answer. So short version - if your roads there are nice and smooth, you'll probably be fairly happy with then in the beginning, and more so as they wear and break in. If you have lots of small, frequent bumps in the roads there, you may not be as happy.

[beandip]

Since my Z was mentioned in this thread . I would like to comment that With the Euro stage 1 and KYB-G2s , I couldn't be happier with the ride . Courtesy Nissan may have the springs still , they bought 40 sets. I wanted my Z to ride lower so I removed some of the coils . Since these springs are not progressive the ride stiffness didn't change , just the height. When pushed hard on corners the car remains flat and corners vary well. On uneven road surfaces there is enough movement in the suspension to be sufficient , because she in lowered. For competition track use , they wouldn't be what I would recommend but for street and some hard driving in the mountains and rural roads I like the ride. These struts do not pump up , but stay the same, hi-way driving is not as smooth as stock but much more firm. The feel is subjective since it amounts to tastes. Some like a rock hard ride, some don't. I wanted control and cornering but tolerable ride . Thankfully this is what I ended up with and am happy . If I were to take a 1000 mile trip I think the stiffness would be tiring. Gary:rambo:

[AZ-240z]

Dan, the ride height was unchanged over stock. The overall effect on the ride was MUCH stiffer. Not harsh, but was VERY firm. On fairly smooth roads they were fine.

As a best guess, I'd say the Mulhollands were apparently designed for a much higher spring rate than stock, as they have a whole lot of rebound damping. So if you hit one bump, no big deal - the struts were just a touch slow returning to their normal loaded extension.

A 240Z doesn't have much strut travel. With the weight of the driver in the car there's only about 1 3/4" before it hits the bump stops. So it wouldn't take too many bumps in a short time to effectively bottom out the strut and then you're riding on the bump stops.

On the other hand, I bought the Mulhollands on a whim, they seemed to be a cool vintage alternative. I didn't know it when I did so, but my red car ALREADY HAD Mulhollands in it when I bought it. No idea how old, or how many miles on them. But the old ones were not as bouncy as the new ones I put in. Now that they are all out of the car at once, the new rear Mulhollands are MUCH more difficult to extend by hand than the old ones. So I'm guessing that eventually they will calm down enough to work OK with the stock springs. I just don't have any idea how long that might take.

This has turned out to be a rather long answer. So short version - if your roads there are nice and smooth, you'll probably be fairly happy with then in the beginning, and more so as they wear and break in. If you have lots of small, frequent bumps in the roads there, you may not be as happy.

Arne, the info given above from your experience with the Mulhollands is just what I was looking for. My car presently has stock springs which were cut, and not sure what struts were installed during the restoration. The ride is pretty stiff and I would like to have a bit softer, more stock ride.

My car is not a daily driver, more of a show car, so the return to stock characteristics is my prime consideration. I do drive it occasionally just to keep things lubed and free, but a less than very firm ride would put less wear and tear on everything.

I know that my objectives go against the grain of what most people on this site are trying to accomplish as far as shear driving enjoyment, but I did enjoy driving this car for 35 years, and now putting it back to showroom stock is what turns me on.

Roads and highways here in Phoenix are generally pretty good so not really an issue. I just want a ride for the limited driving I do which is close to stock for less stress on all the components. The car had Konis which were hydraulic, not gas, for many, many years and the ride was great, just a little firmer than stock. Wish I could find a set of those today. The KYB-GR2 struts would increase the ride height over stock too much or I would put those on. Not too many other options for what I am seeking to do, unless you have some suggestions for another strut option.

Thanks, Arne, for the good info. I will more than likely put the Mulhollands on unless I happen to find a set of NOS stock struts squirreled away in some dusty dealer store room. Any suggestions, given what I am looking for, are always welcome and appreciated from all who are following this discussion.

Dan

[Ksteve]

Dan,

I put the KYB-GR2 shocks on my 73 last year keeping my stock springs but cutting each of them down 1 1/2 coils. This worked well for a comfortable ride and maintained the same ride height as before (stock).

I wanted it a little lower and firmer so I put on the Eibach springs several weeks ago and kept the KYBs. This combination works ok in most driving conditions but the shocks are a little light/loose for these springs. When riding on a bumpy road surface it tends to be a little bouncy like the shocks are not absorbing enough of the rebound.

I am very happy with the Eibachs for the additional firmness and the lower ride height (>1") but I will want to switch to a firmer shock in the future, probably Tokiko HP due to the price and good reviews I have read here.

Hope this helps.

Steve