Update on #237

[hls30.com]

I would have to agree with 26th and say get an extra pair of hands and carefully and patiently remove the dash. With as much rust as is showing in the cowl from the front, the odds are good you will find it creeping up into the window chanel area which is also where the top portion of the dash is stabilized-meaning if the cowl upper dash mounts are weakened, the dash may well be on its way to distorting an cracking anyway. I have removed seven crack free dashes (with an extra pair of hands) and I haven't lost one yet. If you hang one up by one end in the car(while scurrying side to side)-I could see it cracking from the stress, but supporting it at both ends, I can't see it happening unless the crack was already in the cards. The rust is there, and will only get worse, repair it right and be done. The difference between a rusty car in Texas and one in Washington is years of life, can't leave rust in rainfall!

Will

[Mike B]

Thanks for the input guys. The dash is not crackfree, but I think it is still in pretty good shape. It has one crack in the center, maybe about four inches and a very small maybe 1/2 inch crack on the right side (see attached pics). I know a vinly repair guy that did a minor repair on one of the door panels in my 72 and swears he can repair cracked Z dashes too, so I thought I might give him a try. Also, dk240z is right, the pop riveted cover below is covering where A/C lines came into the car at some point (I found an old A/C switch mounted in the car) and I don't recall seeing any rust inside in that area. I will take and post some more pics of the inside of the firewall and the inside and bottom of the cowl area this weekend. It seemed that the firewall got the worst of the rust (maybe the car was parked facing downhill so that the standing water was up against the firewall?) The rest of the inside of the cowl looked like it would be repairable with POR15 and reinforcing mesh, but you can give me some more input after I post additional pics of the area. I've never taken a dash out before, so I didn't really want to do that if I don't have to, but on the other hand I do want to repair it right and if that is what needs to be done than I will have to do it. If I do remove the dash I may have it recovered at the place here in WA while it is out. By the way Will, I don't leave either of my Z's out in the rain. They have both taken over the garage and thankfully I have an understanding wife.

-Mike

[daddz]

Chris, Carl, Jim, etc...

I think it is time to convene a meeting of the low VIN club, it has been a while.

Mike has a great car, one major rust issue and a few more originality issues.

I think we have a new member.

Fred

Go Fred! Let's get those low VIN club members out front. We need soem more pictures of these survivors.

Mike,

Good job on deciding to rescue/save this car. After looking at your pictures I would agree that the rust issue has to be dealt with quickly and thoroughly. If not there won't be a #237 to talk about.

BTW, is this the car that was advertised on Hemmings located in New Jersey?

[Mike B]

I forgot that I did take a picture of the inner firewall this weekend. I removed most of the firewall insulator and it doesn't look too bad to me. The inside got wet from the small hole in the cowl when I washed the car just before taking the pictures. I'll take some more pictures further up the inner firewall and of the bottom side of the cowl area this weekend.

-Mike

[Mike B]

daddz, yes, that is the car. I didn't know they had so many long needle pine trees in NJ, but apparently this car was parked under one for a while.

[daddz]

You would be surprised how much of those long needle pine trees you find here in the Mid Atlantic region. Well done on the 240Z acquisition. I kept staring at the ad and I could not justify another Z car. I do appreciate the color combination as it is the same as my 08/70.

I was expecting to find more rust than I did when I started cleaning my 240Z especially after knowing its history from the original owner. It was outside from '82 to '84 under a tarp which is probably worse than without the tarp. It then sat again outside from late '02 to the fall of 2005.

It really appreciates sitting in the semi-climate controlled garage alot more than being left outside. The '72 Celica is trying to pry its way into the garage as well.

You will be very happy with the sheetmetal from Charlie Osborn. His floors and floor supports worked very well on my old '78 280Z.

[hls30.com]

...Will, I don't leave either of my Z's out in the rain. They have both taken over the garage and thankfully I have an understanding wife.

-Mike

Mike,

I figured you kept her warm and dry, My comment was more for dk240Z to share that the Texas heat is not as rust aiding environment as Wa...

Will

[Mckrack]

Yeah I had a feeling the rust issue by the fire wall wasn't much. However if the dash is cracked then the issue is solved. Take it out if there is a rust issue that you can't live with and send the dash off for restoring to one of the Dashboard restoration shops.

HLS those 7 crack free dashes you have taken out. You wouldn't happen to have any series ones around. I'll buy one from you.

[hls30.com]

I have only one original crack free series one Dash and it is resting comfortably waiting on a low vin to grace my garage!

Sorry !

Will

[26th-Z]

Mike B,

This car is in great shape for its age. It looks to me as though the firewall / battery box is your worst problem and I would like to see frame rail pictures all the way back under the floor before I would go off to replacing them. Some great low VIN items on all your pictures. I see you have the plastic inspection lid clips. Need a fuel door knob? Clear hatch glass? I don't see the lead for the demister. No deck insulation! On #237! How bout that! I cannot disagree more with the comment about value. This car in show condition is worth 20, easily. More like 30 when you are finished.

So here's what I think of the cowl issue. Fix it correctly. Hope these pictures help. These are from the Fairlady Z parts catalog Pub. No. C-236. The firewall is not shown, but the cowl pieces help me explain what you will probably encounter. The first pic is the whole page. Then I cropped the area of the rust spot and drew an arrow to the fresh air chimney. The picture is reversed to show what it is like on our LHD cars. See the tab bent up all along the front edge of the lower cowl member? It is welded to the fire wall. Evidently pine needles built up between the fresh air chimney and the firewall and rotted out the bottom of the cowl pan and the face of the fire wall. To fix this with a welded-in patch of metal will require the removal of the dash along with the heater fan and fresh air box above it. It is almost impossible to work in the area from the top because of the upper cowl frame member. These two members, welded continuously to the firewall, make up the top cross brace from door pillar to door pillar. This box section is open to fresh air from the cowl vents and collects water. The picture of the passenger floor is showing the damage of the cowl leak. That whole area needs to be cut out and replaced. It needs to be sealed up from water, I suggest cutting out the weld spots and removing the battery box. That whole area needs to be cleaned up in a big way. I am not a fan of POR. Repaired properly, that area will easily last another 35 years with a proper paint finish.

[hls30.com]

Once again,

I agree completely with 26th!

If you want to replace the whole box(part numbers 21 and 22 in the pictures 26th posted), I have a set in terrific shape that I can cut out.

Almost anything for a low vin!

Will

[Mike B]

Chris,

Actually, I have the remnants of only one plastics inspection lid clip. I had the remnants of both clips when the car arrived, but the other one was apparently loose and fell out on the drive home (it was broken off like the one in the picture so I wasn’t too worried about that). The car came with a locking gas door (later two sided key) I guess added by the PO. I removed the lock to compare it to the NOS one I have with the black top Nissan N key and just haven’t put it back in yet. Since I doubt I will ever find a correct plastic locking knob, I was considering getting a later style metal one instead of putting the locking one back on (since neither are correct for the car and I’d rather just have one less key to deal with). I do have the clear glass, and no wiring for a rear defroster. What do you mean by deck insulation? I have had two 72 Z’s so I am new to Series one cars in general and am aware of some of the 1969 specific features, but not all of them. Do you have some sort of a checklist you could send me and I’ll let you know what I have and what I’m missing?

Are you sure that the air chimney location is reversed for LHD cars? I am attaching a scan from my 11/69 US parts catalog of the cowl area and it shows the chimney to be on the left hand side, not the passenger side. I think that was what I recall visually seeing as well. Does that make a difference in your analysis? Why are you not a fan of a POR repair for the bottom of the cowl? It seems that many people on this site recommend POR to repair floors and other areas. The bottom of the cowl doesn’t seem to me to be as weight bearing as the floor is.

By removing the battery box, do you mean just the battery tray or the surrounding sheet metal too?