Nothing special about the 350z?

[SportBikeMike]

I'm pretty comfortable in both Zs. The 240Z does have an amazing amount of room inside for such a small car...

[Jeff G 78]

For quite a while after the 350Z hit the market, I read all the negative reports from the Z community about it being big and heavy and that it's not a real Z. I hadn't driven one yet, so I believed what I read while hoping that my opinion would change once I drove one. I really had no idea what to expect once I got behind the wheel.

As an auto engineer, I drove one head to head on a lengthy drive against a C6 Corvette, Mustang Shelby GT500, Pontiac GTO, BMW M5 (~2003 vintage), and a Cadillac CTS-V. I was really surprised at how light and nimble the Z was compared with all the other cars. It reminded me exactly of the pure sports car feel of an S30 Z. The C6 weighed slightly less than the Z, yet felt hundreds of pounds heavier than the Z. The Mustang, GTO, M3, and CTS-V felt very heavy and cumbersome in comparison. The Z was not the quickest by far and rode the worst of the bunch (but still not bad), but it was by far the most fun to drive and was the only one that truely engaged the driver.

I came away from that drive with a whole new appreciation for what Nissan accomplished with a one-size-fits-all platform. Is it perfect? NO, but it IS a true Z.

I later drove the 300HP 350Z and was less impressed with the engine. I felt that it was thrashier than the 287HP engine with less low end torque and non-perceptible gains in HP. I liked the older tuning better, but the car was still fun to drive.

The bottom line is that today's cars are HEAVY due to safety, emissions, and buyer demands for creature comforts. If the Z is driven back to back with its competition, it becomes clear that Nissan did a very good job with the Z. I would like to see a smoother engine (I haven't driven a 2007 yet), but I do like the car overall. I would be proud to park a 350Z in the garage next to my modded '78.

[Carl Beck]

I would be proud to park a 350Z in the garage next to my modded '78.

Hi Jeff:

With all that said - why don't you? You are test driving a lot of nice cars, so money can't be the stopping factor. What keeps you from buying?

I know why I don't - its just a personal opinion - but I think its ugly. On top of that its overpriced. Just as a personal benchmark for my personal tasts - the Solstice mentioned above comes much closer to my idea of beauty and value.. but still not quite close enough. If they would build the Coupe they designed, chop 300lbs off because of the roadster body - and drop the price of the turbo model to $23,995.00 I'd be in there buying...

What would Nissan have to do - to make you a buyer?

regards,

Carl B.

[Walter Moore]

Cars have been getting heaver recently, but not so much for safety, as gimicks.

I rode in a friend's G35 the other day. It has that silly all purpose remote. The doors unlock when he touches the handle. The Driver's seat retracts to the full back position EVERY TIME that he opens the door, and the steering wheel and dashboard move up to their highest setting. When you push the start button, (there is no key...) the steering wheel, dashboard, and driver's seat return to their programmed position.

All that I could think about as I watched the useless motion was how complicated the motors, ball screws, and tracks have to be, and how expensive it will be to keep that car operational when it is 15 years old.

Power windows are bad enough. I would hate to even guess how many electric motors there are in that car. All the extra electrical power requires a bigger battery, more powerful alternator, and larger gage electrical wiring. Each of those by themselves add some weight, but taken as a whole... there must be 1000 lbs of useless junk in that car.

Just my opinion you understand.

[Jeff G 78]

Hi Jeff:

With all that said - why don't you? You are test driving a lot of nice cars, so money can't be the stopping factor. What keeps you from buying?

What would Nissan have to do - to make you a buyer?

Carl,

I'm an auto engineer at the blue oval. My experience was based on a benchmarking drive I was on, so money isn't as available as it might have seemed. :disappoin

That said, I live in Michigan where we only get about six months out of the year to drive a sports car. I already have my '78 Z and I need to own a truck for all the home improvement projects I'm working on, so a second Z just doesn't make any sense for me. If I ever move to a warmer climate, I could justify it easier since I could drive it year 'round. The only way I could justify owning one in Michigan is if I replaced my 280Z and that isn't going to happen. I've owned S30 Z's for 23 years and I plan to have one in my garage for years to come.

[SportBikeMike]

Well Carl, I have bought a 350....and have enjoyed driving it the last 3.5 years. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I thinks its far from ugly....not as beautiful as a 240Z....but still more attractive than most cars out there. I agree with Jeff's post that Nissan did a great job in bringing back the Z car.... and I'm glad its parked next to my 240 in the garage.

[Jeff G 78]

Cars have been getting heaver recently, but not so much for safety, as gimicks.

Safety and emissions stuff really IS what is making cars heavier. It is very true that the creature comforts add weight, but the safety equipment adds up much quicker. Power windows are actually lighter these days than manual windows, so that one is a no brainer. As for the rest of the junk, the damn US buyer DEMANDS it! Why do you think the Track model 350Z died? It's because it didn't have leather, heated seats, or other such items. It sold in very low numbers so Nissan replaced it with a Grand Touring model which is basically a combination of a Track and a Touring with the Brembos, forged wheels AND the gizmos. I hate it too, but it makes no sense for a car company to leave the gadgets off to save a few pounds and then have the cars sit on the dealer's lots.

In 2000, we sold the Cobra R with no AC, back seat, or radio as a track-ready super limited edition (300 total) Mustang and we got reamed by every major magazine for selling a $55,000 car without these "necessities". It was a factory built TRACK car with a factory fuel cell, Recaro race seats, a mega expensive differential, super sticky tires and an extensively tested aero package that added real downforce. If that car can't get away without the creature comforts, then a high volume car like the Z sure isn't going to get away with it.

Personally, the Track model would be my only choice, but yet the Touring sold in much higher numbers proving that the US buyer doesn't care about extra weight.

[geezer]

Walter pretty much laid out my thoughts. All the luxury adds weight and thus reduces performance. The true essence of the early Z's consisted of not a lot of horsepower or many luxurys to add weight. The 350Z is a different breed in a different era. I'm sure there are those that love them, but for different reasons. I guess the point I'm trying to make is, I don't think the letter Z should have been used. If the plan was to revive the glory of the original Z cars, it should have been more of a bare bones, performance orientated car with a somewhat lower price. Maybe, with all the hype about the next wave of low cost imports about to hit the beach, Nissan will genuinely revisit the Z experience with such a car. I am one who does like the 350Z, but for different reasons.

[red_dog007]

When I was talking to my buddy who is looking for a car, him comparing the G35 vs. 350z this is what he had to say.

He felt that the 350 was much more froggy which I can see why.

G35 = 293/258

350z = 306/268

Plus it weighs some 150lbs less.

Though he said that the G35 looks better, feels better, and stuck to the road much better. Him driving it around those corners I was supposed myself at how well the car stuck to the road.

Cars with similar power, the one that handles batter is always going to win. Then with the G37 coming out at the end of this year, and nothing heard of the Z, the G37 is going to take the straight away win.

IMO the G35 is the new Z, and is worth the extra $6,000.

Weight, there are other cars lighter, the same weight or barely over compared to the Z, so weight is nothing special. Some have V8's with much more torque, look meaner, ect. I think that a makeover would have been good enough for the 06/07 model, but if they did it now, I think that it would be a last ditch effort to get more sales. Or even if they kept the same look, and did a 370z.

[jmark]

Well said Jeff. I would love to see a retro Z but that isn't going to happen. The 240-280Z are classic shapes probably never to be duplicated IMHO. I have a 350Z Track & only wish it was more raw like the original 240Z, but in todays market it won't sell enough to make it profitable. I have sold my Track to make way for a new 07 Nismo 350Z. Many don't like the shape either. I love the JGTC look & the Nismo performance bits. At only 1500 copies for 1100 dealers you won't see one on every corner either. I have several friends who race the 350Z in SCCA T2 competition and the car is very competitive against much higher HP cars. The 350Z sat on the pole for the Runoffs this past year. The cars they race against in T2 are the Mustang, Firebird, Evo & Subi. Watch the 350Z in Grand Am Koni Challenge racing. The car is running against the Porsche 996 & 997, Mustang GT & M3 and is competitive. For the money it is tough to beat. Sorry Carl I think the Solstice will just be another Fiero in a few years. The G35 is a nice car but it isn't a Z. FWIW I am 6'2" and 195 lbs. and fit perfect in the 350Z.

[jmark]

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=7&article_id=5057

The author writes "The Nismo 350Z is a driver’s car, pure and simple. It’s a car that boasts the handling character of European sports cars — more so than the stock 350Z — at a much lower price. So can it keep up with a Porsche Cayman S or the BMW M Coupe on a racetrack? From my brief experience with the new Nissan, I feel that it’ll definitely give the more-expensive Germans a run for their money. A comparison test in the making? Oh yeah." Isn't that what the 240Z did back in 1970 against the 911?

[bigoak]

I'm 6'2" and have never had any problem fitting in my 350Z. It definitely has more headroom than my 240...

As far as the G35, I always thought they were heavier, slower, more luxurious versions of the 350Z aimed more towards old people.

I suppose it is how the 6'2" is configured and what seats you are running in the 240Z. I'm 6'2" (seems like everyone is on this thread...) and have a real challenge getting into the 350Z but no problems in my 240Z or my Z31.

Now my 6'2" configuration is different than most. I have a 32" inseam (normal guys legs) and I'm long through the torso (somewhat ape-like, quite the knuckle-dragger...), so headroom is always at a premium in my case. One of the guys in our club is 6'7" but his configuration is the opposite with a 38" inseam and a short torso. He runs a 1973 turbo 240Z (pretty neat setup). I haven't seen 350Z, but we had someone with a G35 coupe on the Tour of the North this weekend and he got in a drove it around the parking lot without too much trouble (knees looked a little cramped to me, but he must just be used to it).