Why no Datsuns in Historic series?

[ZSaint]

I just came back from the Historic races at PIR. What are the rules of this sanctioning body? It seems to me that they need some 280Z CP cars to eat up most of the Cameros and Corvettes that they race. Is that the deal... AP and BP and AS is all they recognize? They also have Lotus/Cortina sedans. Why not a nice 1600cc 510? Is this a plot against Nissan/Datsun?

[e_racer1999]

the other drivers complained and said it would be unfair to them

[EScanlon]

Friday afternoon, one of the later heats run DID have a 510 buzzing around the track.

I'll post a pic later, but it was the ONLY Datsun/Nissan in the entire event that I saw. Granted this was only on Friday and I didn't attend Sat. or Sun. so he may not have been there the other two days.

E

[beandip]

I just came back from the Historic races at PIR. What are the rules of this sanctioning body? It seems to me that they need some 280Z CP cars to eat up most of the Camaros and Corvettes that they race. Is that the deal... AP and BP and AS is all they recognize? They also have Lotus/Cortina sedans. Why not a nice 1600cc 510? Is this a plot against Nissan/Datsun?

I was surprised that there were no Zs . There was one 5 10 , but the class he was in he wasn't a factor. I don't know the Zs are classed and what they would be in competition with . I had fun on the parade lap on Sat. and was able to do a little ''spirited'' run through the chicane and festival turns . Sunday they stuck a Pace car right in front of me and I was forced to ''be good'' . 20 MPH on a race track is sacrilegious. Over all it was a great three day weekend. Gary

[Diseazd]

Here are some pix from the historic races at VIR a few weeks ago.

[Carl Beck]

Wow.. a Datsun 610 in the background of the fourth picture!! Haven't seen any of them in years! Great car and still had the IRS..

Carl B.

[jmortensen]

There is a fairly large contingent of VARA racers in SoCal who run Z's in the CP3 class or the CP3M (modified) class. From the stuff I've read it looks like their main competition is 911s, and the 911's try really hard to slant the rules in their favor. They are out there in vintage races though, maybe just not in OR.

I think the 240s new eligibility in GT3 means that you'll probably see less of the 240s at the vintage races now that they don't have to get their asses handed to them in GT2. I'd imagine there will be quite a few coming out of retirement.

[Carl Beck]

I just came back from the Historic races at PIR. What are the rules of this sanctioning body? It seems to me that they need some 280Z CP cars to eat up most of the Cameros and Corvettes that they race. Is that the deal... AP and BP and AS is all they recognize? They also have Lotus/Cortina sedans. Why not a nice 1600cc 510? Is this a plot against Nissan/Datsun?

Hi ZSaint:

PIR is in this case _ Portland International Raceway ???

A friend of mine that used to live in Washington State - bought a 1969 Production Year 240-Z, because he thought it would qualify for use in whatever historic series racing club events that were held in that area.

Then he found out that the rule that said; ... for Sports Cars produced prior to 1970...... really meant that it was for sports cars "raced" prior to 1970. Seems the local historic racing club was formed by Porsche owners - and they didn't realize any 240-Z's had been produced prior to 1970. No problem, they just changed the interpretation of the rule to preclude the 240-Z's - then later changed the written rules as well....

FWIW,

Carl B.

[Ron Carter]

Thanks Carl,

This is the long explanation, as this subject is near and dear to my heart. Many car enthusiasts watch the Monterey Historics (probably the largest Vintage Racing Event in the USA) and there are no Japanese cars as a rule. Here are some of the reasons why:

First and foremost, vintage racing is an Ego and Money driven sport. Guys that show up in expensive Ford Cobra's, Corvettes, Porsches, Ferrari's and alike do not like the idea of being on the track with a car that is worth 1/100th of the value of their car. Worse yet, these Japanese cars were not terribly well prepared back in the day and were often in primer, and the guys in the expensive cars did not want "the guy" in the primered Datsun to cause an on track accident, where his losses would be minimal compared to the damage of a rare Ferrari, Alfa or Porsche.

Most Japanese race cars (in the USA) were Datsuns and were considered low budget racers. Even worse, these little, relatively inexpensive cars were beating the more expensive cars and that hurt the ego's of the guys who spent thousands, even millions to restore a rare Ferrari (etc) to race specifications, only to have it passed by a 240Z or Datsun 510.

So the sanctioning bodies that run these groups are not dumb, the money raised to run these events are from the big guys and not from the little guys. They want to keep their membership happy, so they exlude the japanese cars...The guys with the relatively expensive cars have their own group to run without the concern of a budget racer beating down their ego or their wallet...

Well, now there is a lot more interest in the Japanese cars, with JDM styling, drifting competitions and import drags there is a new generation of enthusiasts and they like the Vintage Japanese cars...So I am hopeful that the tide will change and the old guard will see that the little Japanese cars deserve their spot on the track.

There are more and more nicely turned out Datsuns, on the west coast I can name 7 to 10 really well sorted Datsuns that should be allowed at any historic racing event. Two of which are for sale. Bob Klemme's 67.5 roadster, and Brad Frissell's 240Z.

HMSA (the group that runs the race groups for the Monterey Historics) also known as General Racing LTD, is the hold out as of now. Steve Earl, the CEO of General Racing LTD has been very outspoken regarding excluding Japanese cars. There have been very few occasions where Datsun's have been included at his events.

I have submitted my 67.5 Roadster to run at the Coronado Speed Festival in San Diego this year (an HMSA/General Racing event). We will see if they accept my application. My car easily clears all their stringent restrictions for cars that have racing history, and are not "over restored" but, restored to a period of time. In this case 1967.

Wish me luck...who knows, maybe I will have a chance to run at the Monterey Historics one day.

[xray]

Well, Ron..I wish you the best of luck and look forward to you showing your competitors the finer points of your rear bumper!

This is a good general idea from what the Rest of the Enthusiasts think about our fun Z car:

http://www.sportscarmarket.com/profiles/2006/January/Race/index.html

FTA:

"What we're really talking about here are entry-level, production vintage race cars, a group in which the 240Z is a late, not very desirable example. This is where virtually all vintage race drivers get their feet wet. "

"There are a number of factors that force Datsuns into the low-dollar category. The biggest of these is that small- and mid-bore vintage racers are terribly Euro-centric, and Datsuns are just so, so...Japanese. Somehow the image of a cheese-cutter cap, a meerschaum pipe, and a scarf flapping in the wind just doesn't work with a Datsun, particularly not a 240Z."

"The other problem is that they're a bit new for the golden era of vintage racing and some clubs won't accept them (however, most will). In Europe the FIA will make you run against Porsche 935s and RSRs, so you're stuck with being a moving chicane in the big leagues, but the local clubs will make room for you to play."

Definitely reflects Ron's impressions..

As unfortunate as it may be, if you want to vintage race, go Euro....If you want to race for real, stick with the Z!

Steve

[e_racer1999]

As unfortunate as it may be, if you want to vintage race, go Euro....If you want to race for real, stick with the Z!

thanks for the quote, steve!!

[gogriz91]

I think Nissan is missing an opportunity in racing now. I see alot more Mazdas tearing it up on Speed than I do Nissans.