ZG Production Figures

[Tony D]

I've been all over Brad Frisselle's car, got some nice photos of it after the local LA shop reworked it in...95? I know it spent some time at the Peterson Automobile Museum right after the restoration. Got a few photos of it from that time period---all on film. Anybody remember film?

[MikeW]

Here's a higher resolution shot of the Frisselle car taken at roughly the same instant as Chris's shot above.

[HS30-H]

- given the 260z recall locally in Japan - Alan any idea's if any managed to evade the recall to have the L26/SU engine removed and replaced with the L20aE and the chassis numbers re-stamped?

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe it was a one-off 'show car' only and was never released to the public. Hence "One of Nissan's long lost aborted models"

As far as I'm aware, this 'Fairlady 260ZE 2by2' model never actually made it into a sales showroom - although it must have got within an inch of being released. Even if it did, it would have soon been recalled just like those 2-seater 'Fairlady 260Z' models that got retro-fitted with L20 engines and their VIN numbers re-stamped.

Early 1974 was - by all accounts - a pretty turbulent time at Nissan. The Yom Kippur War of late 1973 had created what was called the 'Oil Shock' in Japan ( Japan having no domestic oil supply ) and there was a massive swing away from 'performance' image models of car. Nissan curbed much of their domestic racing activity in an effort to make it look as though they were taking the subject of economy seriously. Strange times, with some parallels to what we are going through today.........

Both of these cars were fitted with G-noses.

They don't appear to have much in common with the Japanese 'factory' items though. I would have thought race teams such as these would have produced their own simplified and lightened versions ( with the bumper moulded in ) that incorporated / accommodated the wider wheelarches and the front air dams / spoilers.

Question: Were such cars allowed to use these front ends in IMSA GTU races because the 'Fairlady 240ZG' model in Japan had been homologated for FIA Group 4 competition, or was it simply because similar items were 'available' for the general public to buy from Datsun Competition USA?

Alan T.

[Carl Beck]

Hi Alan:

It seems that everything evolving, moving over time, in the 70's with all the factory teams was at least linked, if not directly related.

The IMSA Series was set up with "rules" that would encourage professional racing participation by as many factory teams as possible. Over the years, talking to the guys involved - they felt that the driving force in the establishment of the rules - was Porsche. So whatever Porsche had, was using or needed to use - was allowed in the rules for everyone else.

that was the story from the Pits anyway...

FWIW,

Carl B.

[John Coffey]

Question: Were such cars allowed to use these front ends in IMSA GTU races because the 'Fairlady 240ZG' model in Japan had been homologated for FIA Group 4 competition, or was it simply because similar items were 'available' for the general public to buy from Datsun Competition USA?

IMSA GTU rules were loosley based on FIA Group 4 specs but were modified year-to-year to meet racing requirements in the US. Modification allowances early in the history of IMSA almost exactly matched FIA Group 4 specs but by the late 1970s IMSA rules had morphed so far that non-FIA homologated cars were competing and many IMSA GTO and AAGT cars were eligible for SCCA's TransAm series.

So, the answer to your question is: Both.

[Carl Beck]

Carl,

I did think of Ron when I made that last post. It figures that the story is at least partly apocryphal ( to be expected really ), but I sometimes wonder just how many kits Datsun Competition USA actually sold, and where they have all gone (?). They don't seem to pop up all that often, do they? Maybe time has been harsh on their numbers.......... It's a real shame, because they are really nicely made parts.

Hi Alan (everyone):

I'd be surprised if Datsun Competition USA actually sold more than a dozen of the complete Factory G-Nose kits. I'm sure they sold far more pairs of the headlight covers and hood hinges for use on various after-market knock-off's, ran mostly on the street.

The first aftermarket copies were pretty high quality as well, but as time drove price competition, copies of the copies were being made and the quality of the parts went down with the price. Sadly the lowest price units sold the most...

The G-Nose doesn't seem to have made it into the Datsun Competition Catalogs here until around 1976. At that time they were $1,100.00 from Nissan. While the after-market supplied them initially for $675.00, then later the less expensive copies were around $450.00

Looking at the cost/benefit in terms of the "aero" effect for performance, most of the racers here used some type of front air spoiler and rear air spoiler from 1970 on. The BRE Spook was around $45.00 then and the rear spoiler was around $65.00. The BRE headlight covers were around $65.00 a pair then as well. So $175.00 vs $1,100.00, or $675.00 for a good copy vs $1,100.00 - - - wasn't much of a choice for most.

This usually being added to a three to five year old 240-Z, that sold then in the market for around $1,800.00 to $2,500.00. At the time not really big money cars nor racers... So I'm sure that the $1,100.00 price on the factory G-Nose put a lot of prospective buyers off. California like Florida has always been filled with fiberglass specialists related to the fiberglass boat industry. So lots and lots of low overhead suppliers were looking for anything to supplement their incomes. The buyers here expected low prices on fiberglass parts...

Looking that the "aero" tests done by Car & Driver in 74

Stock 240-Z

Lift at 70mph

Front 140lbs.

Rear 20 lbs

Fuel Economy as a measure of Drag -

Adding the complete G-Nose kit:

Lift at 70mph

Front 45lbs

Rear not given

Improvement in Fuel Economy + 1.2 mpg

Adding the BRE Spook, Rear Spoiler & Headlight Covers

Lift at 70mph

Front 35lbs

Rear 40lbs Downforce

Improvement in Fuel Economy + 1.4 mpg

By 1975/76 with the introduction of the 280Z and the IMSA competition we started to see the G-Nose applied at least in appearance. Like the race cars in Japan, the G-Nose used on the track, was combined with an even lower front air spoiler. So far we haven't seen that combination tested, but there is little doubt that the additional front spoiler below the G-Nose would have yielded a significant improvement.

FWIW,

Carl B.

[26th-Z]

Concur with John Coffey's answer. Yes, loosely based on Group 4 specs but allowing such things as wider wheels - thus the extrodinary fender flares.

[Tony D]

Yes, Frisselle's car utilized a one-piece replica, not a factory G-Nose. Many racers used the one-piece for crash-replacement ease, as well as availability.

It's much quicker to swap one of those one-pieces that to screw around with the individual componentry.

Plus, most sanctioning bodies allow 'replica parts conforming to factory pieces'---so FRP knockoff fenders, unitized lower valences, etc. were common. As long as they were generally replicas that were visually indistinguishable form their stock counterparts they would be allowed. One-Piece Camaro Front Ends comes to mind. A few Dzus Fasteners and some pins and the whole clip is off for total service access.

I want to hand out a big thanks to Alan for supplying me with the copious documentation---last evening I forwarded close to 12 MB of electronic data to the SCTA for their determination on the nose issue. More than likely this protest will result in a rewriting of the rule book to update it (at least that is the word I am getting so far).

From the feedback I got, from the Rules Committee's viewpoint, there are two outstanding issues:

1) Was the G-Nose a "Production Part"? Did 500 vehicles get produced that were available from any dealer for consumption for the general public. (The FIA Homogolation Paperwork should suffice to satiate that need.)

2) Is there a connection between the Coupe and the 2+2 that would allow them to be considered 'the same series'? Which, according to SCTA Rules would allow ANY production piece available for 'the series' to be applied, wether it was available in that configuration from the factory or not.

That in my mind is clear since "R&H" Prefixes onto the base vehicle's "S30" are no different than a Camaro with an inline 250CID Six, and one with a Big Block 396---each of these Camaros would have a different VIN code sequence---yet they are still Camaros. Same as with Corvairs in early/late production, earlies have a 140CID engine, and accompanying VIN Sequence, lates have a 164CID engine, and are also Coded respectively---they are all "Corvairs".

The "G" Prefix, is more akin to something along the lines of a Four-Door versus Two-Door VIN Coding Sequence like in a Corvair, or other family sedan---they both are Corvairs, but they have different VIN Codes deliniating the four door version. This was somewhat along the lines of my supporting argument to say the 2+2 is simply a 'sister in the series'---the Series of "S30" vehicles.

This has to be resolved, as the protest will hold up the awarding of records at Bonneville not only in the G-PRO Class, but possibly ALL Production (PRO) classes, as well as all records set or broken later in the year in ElMirage.

IMO, it was poor form for the gent to do the protest at the time he did---mucked it up for everyone involved, and pressured the Rules Committee into fast action when deliberate action should be taken. There was plenty of time between our Rookie Run in November where we were within .300 MPH of breaking the record and May's event when we backed it up within 1.489mph. It should have been done in the off-season, not 3 events into the season.

In either case, wether the protest is upheld or denied, having the time in the off season to forage for replacement parts suitable (namely the STOCK Non-G-Nose Headlight Covers) would have been nice.

I forsee changes in the 2008 Rule Book! Whatever the outcome, it is what it is...

I, of course, will let everybody know what the ruling was when I get the decision. Again, thanks to Alan, and to all for the assistance and kind words of support. All we can do now is sit back and wait.

[Tony D]

On Carl's comment about the cost of the G-Nose.

When I shipped my 73 240Z back from Japan in 1989, the wonderful loaders did damage to my one-piece. At that time, the multiple piece Nissan Nose was right around $1750 complete. In Japan when I first arrived in 1984, with a favorable Yen Rate, the headlight buckets complete were 30,000 yen each ($100 thereabouts), the Upper Piece 18,000 yen, and the lower apron price escapes me, but the in-country cost from the Naha, Okinawa Prince Distributor RETAIL was somewhere well under $1000 (somewhere in the $750 range seems about correct)---within two years the exchange rate more than doubled that cost in American Dollars (Still only about $1500, complete) while the Yen Cost stayed stable. At that point, a one-piece replica was hanging on the wall of the local "Home Depot" style store for 30,000 yen (so the one-piece JDM knock-offs were a whole $100!!!), while the two piece EVA Replicas were 45,000 yen ($167). I was buying used one-piece units from junkyards for 500 yen if they had damage (and for Japanese "damage rendering it useless and not worth repair" is frighteningly little!) and complete units with hinges and minimal cracking around the bonnet corner area (where the on-piece units always seem to crack) for 1000 to 1500 yen! You can do the math for 268 yen to the dollar exchange rate.

The unit that is on my 73 right now was bought from one of my favorite junkyards on the south east part of the island...I gave the owner 1000 yen for the unit, and he gave me change of a 500 yen piece, laughing saying 'go get a hamburger!' because he couldn't believe I was willing to spend that much for a Nose with 'corner cracking'...

Ahhhh, a different world, a different time!

[Tony D]

I was informed last evening that the decision should be ready / completed during the September 21st Rules Committee Meeting.

I have been given another contact name to enquire as to if my attendance at the meeting will be allowed, and if 'rebuttal' will be required.

Curiously, since protesting us, the sod that winged has not shown for a single meet save the one where the lodged the protest.

Sunday had 2-7 mph tailwinds, and cars were running at least 3mph faster than their previous bests. Undoubtedly the record would have been ours had we chosen to run. Burned before , so we're still waiting. We still will have decent placement for running in the top 100 in October, and our concerted efforts will be in November...hopefully the breeze kicks up then, as well!

[Tony D]

AN UPDATE TO OUR G-NOSE ISSUES:

I got this e-mail on Friday, but was travelling and could not respond.

"There will be some discussion tonight... Most of the committee

agreed or suggested we not allow the nose in Production, GC and Altered... We may do a rewrite to exclude noses other than stock because it gets too confusing at best for the officials and entrants...... Board Meeting tonight

at Dad Millers"

This got me kind of set back, thinking they were going to totally knock the G-Nose out of competition, so with 'great flair and diplomacy' I got out the big guns, and mentioned Alan Thomas' reputation, his owning of the only documented ZG in the UK, and that he supplied me with the photos. I then retransmitted the 73 Magazine Photos from above, explaining again the FIA 500 car requirements, as well as accepted 'production status' amongst Z-Owners worldwide. I also explained the differences in US and Japan bumper regulations, and just to throw it in called notice to the fact that the car on the podium as a 'fuel injected 2+2' which did not appear but in two markets: USA and JDM. "This was the equivalent of the 280Z 2+2 for the USA, as everywhere else in the world, they got the 260Z. This is no different than a Camaro, Firebird, or Firebird Trans-Am...all the same car, just different trim levels and names. They are all F-Bodies, and these are all Z-Cars. Not to put too fine a point on it, but with the above reply, I was worried about ANY person with an Early Z-Car not being allowed to use the G-Nose. At this point, it was more to allow the Coupe Guys to run it if they so chose---a fight for general S30 Owners who want to contest land speed records at all, and not just 'my fight'. Well, the lady with the Blue Car seemed to have done it; as quickly afterward I received this reply, (my emphasis added) along with it being sent to all members of the Rules Committee. Bobby is the 'lead man' and Chief Scrutineer/Steward so his recommendation carrys much weight:

"After Tony sent me this email, the fact that the car

was delivered from the factory with the G nose on the

Fairlady, I totally have NO problem with him running

the G nose..... I told Tony to put all this data in a

3 ring binder and keep it with his car.... Let him run

it ....."

A THOUSAND THANKS TO ALAN THOMAS! Without his photographs there is probably no way they would have changed their minds! Thanks to all who added items to this thread, I purloined the "ZG" Catalog page and had sent it along previously, and offerred that I have a hard copy that I can present to them upon request (though mine is a 72 version). For quick E-Transmission, this was also helpful.

Thanks to you all, hopefully this will be the end of it!

[HS30-H]

Tony,

Thanks for the update, and congrats for getting this accepted and the matter settled in your favour.

In truth I suspect that the FIA Gr.4 homologation was really all that was needed. There can be little argument that the 'HS30-H' Fairlady 240ZG model existed, and was sold to the general public in high enough numbers to satisfy the homologation. If other competitors are legally mixing and matching parts and specs from other variants of the models they are using, then the factory-style G-nose on your team's car has to be legal too.

I suspect the main problem - and this is something that we see so often with our cars - is the basic lack of knowledge on the variants that were sold outside the English-speaking world.

Maybe you should now start saving up for an S20 engine!?

Cheers,

Alan T.