Looking at used MIG's. Got Questions

[SuDZ]

Hey all,

I will admit now that I have never done welding. I have some friends who do and uncles as well that all told me if I wanted to learn they can help me out. I am looking at a couple used MIGs that are for sale in my area. So far I found these two...

This welder was a spare that i never used. They are very dependable machines.welds .020 up to .062 wire uses tweeco type guns. a-1 condition.220v 3ph $295.00

I have two industrial mig welders, 240/460 volts three phase for sale. $ 200.00 each or take both for $300.00 A fraction of the cost of new ones.

http://images.craigslist.org/0101080103090104112007080545cdac1d906959f3a5003df2.jpg

The picture that I attached is of the second offering. I was wondering if these may be right about what I would want for working on the Z's. I was wondering if the "industrial" one would be too powerful for relativly thin Z metal or not.

I am sorry but that is all the info they gave me on the listings if it seems like I left out to much. I am just kind of fishing for some ideas...

Thanks

SuDZ

[hls30.com]

WHile I am sure both of those are heavy duty and good welders, you will be limited to using them where you have three phase power only-most homes do not-meaning you may have to spend more money to make them usable, and then they are not really portable(unless there is three phase where you hope to use them).

An suitable welder can be had for between $150 on sale at Harbor Freight to $500 from your local welding supply store. It would be fully portable in that it can be used anywhere ther is a household plug-or a small generator.

On the used welders, Check your power where you hope to work, check to see if parts and owners manuals are available for the used models you are considering. Ask the seller to demonstrate the used welder for you on some auto body sheet metal(take a piece with you). They could be fine, but they will also be larger to store than a new smaller unit.

WIll

[SuDZ]

I forgot to mention that I have 220V hookups out in my garage already.

SuDZ

[jmortensen]

You have 220V single phase. 3 phase is different. Not sure what is required to switch from one to the other. I know I worked in an industrial building and they switched an outlet from single to 3 phase for an electric forklift charger. I'm not sure how hard that is to do or what it normally costs.

A 220V welder has the advantage that it can weld thicker metal (1/4" and over) in one pass vs a 110V welder. There really shouldn't be any reason to use any metal thicker than about 1/8" on a Z, and most of what people do with their welders is body work, which is really thin sheet on a Z. A 110V welder will do that fine, but won't be able to weld the trailer to tow the Z somewhere (at least not in one pass).

You should be able to turn the 220V welder down to do the body work, at least that's the case with the Miller and Lincoln 220V welders. I think the main obstacle to turning it down would be click type adjusters. Some cheaper welders have 5 voltage and 5 wirespeed settings, where a nicer one has potentiometers where you can really fine tune it. I'd try and find out more about the welders and see if you can find people who have used the particular brand you're looking at and how it works on thin sheet.

I'd suggest that you spend as much as you can on a welder, because a good one will make you look more talented than you are, and a bad one makes you look really really really really bad at welding. Gas shielding, in my opinion, is a must.

[JimmyZ]

You can get a rotary phase converter to run them but this is not ideal and you might have to get a really expensive RP converter to handle running them. (RP's go for $300 and up) When running genuine three phase to your house costs $1000 per foot the reason the three phase equip is so cheap becomes apparent. The $1000/ft quote comes from my family's farm expansion. We had to switch our equipment on in stages or we would black out the town!

In the end you will be much better off getting a $500-$800 machine. The wire feed mechanism and circuit board are higher quality resulting in high quality welds. You can get a used 110V MIG for $100-$200 and get by but your welds will be crappy and getting parts for the cheap Italian machines is often a bitch. (Daytona MIG & look-alikes)

Here's a link I made for such things.

http://warbuddies.homestead.com/RestoHelp.html

Hope this helps,

Jim

[george71z]

Oh man, I got all excited, thinking you were looking for an old Russian fighter plane. They look awesome when they are restored.

[Walter Moore]

There are also several brands of variable frequency inverter motor drives that will produce three phase output power from a single phase input voltage source, but an inverter large enough to power a welder would be very expensive.

[Carl Beck]

Don't be fooled into thinking that just because an electric arc welder will run on "110" volts... that you can plug it in anywhere you have 110. That's not the case, you need 110 on a 30 Amp circuit, or you'll be blowing the circuit breakers... Most household outlets are on 15 or 20 Amp circuits... and it takes heavier wire and heavier outlets for 30 Amp service.

IMHO the 220 volt set up's from Miller or Lincoln are the only way to go - and you can plan $600.00 to $800.00 by the time it's all said and done, when buying a new one. You need a really good helmet, gas supply and and other small tools...

Make perfect sense to buy used - it saves sales taxes and shipping in addition to depreciation on the equipment. Just be sure you buy really good used equipment.

Personally - I'd recommend buying a small portable gas welding set up FIRST. Far more useful to the average home mechanic, and they are only $200.00 to $250.00 when on sale.. Unless you are planning to do a lot of thin sheet metal welding - the arc welders aren't much good for anything else.

FWIW,

Carl B.

[JimmyZ]

A friend of mine that owns a welding supply house sometimes gets trades in or even purchases used school equipment. This is a good place to look for a deal if you can find a shop that does this sort of thing.

I got a ThermalArc 180 Amp 220V MIG machine that makes sweet welds with great control of the action due to the quality wire feed. Carl is right, the 220V machines by Miller or Lincoln are nice. Buying any quality name brand welder guarantees that you will be able to readily find parts.

The crap you get at Harbor Freight is just that... crap. You can get by with it but it's certainly not ideal. A gas rig is VERY nice to have but I perceive you want to fix some holes in your Z. Obviously you want/can only afford the MIG right now. I waited about a year each before my dream machines materialized one at a time. Got great deals on the TIG, MIG, Plasma cutter and gas set. Sometimes it pays to wait. Once you get started collecting metalworking equipment it's hard to stop.

Jim

[SuDZ]

Thanks for all the help and ideas everyone.

SuDZ