How Much Should I be Spending on a Paint Job for 240z

[EScanlon]

Carl, not saying that it cannot be done.

I AM saying that it is a major PITA.

Silver IS a metallic, but other than the silver metallic flake, maybe a dash or two of black or some other light tint, it's mostly solvent and a volume of clear. It ALSO paints differently than regular metallics.

Try that with any other shade of metallic; Red, Blue, Green, Yellow, or whatever, and you have more clear and a lot more tint. Now there is more depth to the paint and the static charges in the car, the paint gun, the air and even the painter and things start lining up slightly different.

Now it may be more of an urban legend than not. I don't know.

Of the 2 dozen or more cars that I've painted, of which at least one dozen has been in metallics, I've never approached panel painting them. The man who taught me how to paint was adamant about it. He had several cars in several magazines as center folds, his "name" was MIJO. Granted this was in the late 70's and early 80's, so techniques do change and I'm just remembering what I was taught.

I DO remember one car that someone panel painted in the MWR paint booth at the U.S.A.F. base where I was stationed. He painted it a light shade of blue metallic and he put on 4 or 5 coats of paint. Additionally, this was done in stages, that is, hood, fenders, front and rear valance / spoiler, and trunk lid then the body with the doors hung to the sides of the booth. When he assembled the car, two days later, it just didn't look as though he had painted it from the same batch of paint. I just took it as confirmation of what Mijo had taught me.

But as you pointed out, it IS possible to pick a painter that knows his trade well enough that he knows how to orient the parts to avoid that problem.

The reason for my comments is that: as a blanket statement; panel painting is NOT the fix-all answer to painting a car, nor telling your painter how to do the job.

2¢

E

[Ramses]

I have spent only 2k on my paint. It is close to a complete restore. My body guy, a friend, told me that he would work on it while slow. Mostly weekends and nights. It took over 1.5 years to complete, but she looks beautiful. She is in the shop currently getting the undercarriage sealed. Been waiting for about 1 month. I am not in any hurry, because the longer she is in the shop the longer I have to find storage for her. I will probably buy a house in September, but that is a different story. If you are not in a hurry, buddy up to a body expert, buy him beer on the weekends and evenings and see if he could do it a side project.

[JimmyZ]

This is the WRONG advice if you're having the car painted with a metallic paint. Metallic paint will acquire a look based on the angle of the part as it is painted in relation to gravity. Not to mention the static electricity developed as you paint the car.

Paint your hood hanging from the wall and then mount it next to your fenders that got painted laying on their side, and next to the cowl that was also painted hanging but at a different angle from the other parts and see if it doesn't appear to be 4 different color shades.

The reason the "paint guy" (who has probably painted dozens of cars) will try to talk you out of it even when you're dealing with a single color non-metallic, is that it adds a major PITA factor to the job as well as causing dozens of other problems besides the PITA.

You don't tell a dentist or a surgeon how to do their job, don't tell the painter or the body man either.

E

After talking with my body shop friend who has been painting for 27 years he had some disagreement with your statements. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and has to accept any limitations they may have:) (all in jest)

If you are using metal stands for your panels then they are grounded to the wet floor. (Static=nil) Truth is some booths don't have ideal flow which can put trash in the paint when using every square inch. Yes, it is a major PITA to paint the car in pieces and you have to watch your movement to avoid bumping anything. Painting the car while disassembled give the best possible coverage. To illustrae my point, a friend of mine bought a new Dodge Magnum and made a horrid discovery months later. It seems that the door jambs were sprayed with the doors on and there was rust coming through the areas of exposed primer where the spray didn't reach. His Mustang project however was a dark metallic and was sprayed with the doors off. I insisted on completey disassembling the car, stripping and working from there since I was doing Q/P replacement. Hanging the doors etc afterwards was a PITA but the whole car looks sweet! You'd have to get some fancy scientific equipment to see any deviations in the metallic flake orientation.(Attached photos)

Your statement might ring true for the enamel my Z was painted with 17 years ago. It was a metallic flip flop so there was lots of clear with the color. It took eight coats to cover and just about drove the paint man nuts but it looked great.

You CAN paint all of the parts at once and get a color match. You won't get color match if you paint one panel today then another tomorrow etc etc. Base sprays on so dry and if you spray a metallic right orientation doesn't enter in as a factor. My friend mentioned above sprays in alternating patterns between coats and sprays from a "distance" on the last coat to get the flakes to lay down uniformly. (This is just my observation from the booth window) He screws up a bit every now and then on the clear but will often get a nice finish with neglible to no peel. (Occasionally he gets a run or some peel)

As far as telling the bodyman how to do his job you shouldn't. You should give standards for the job and not just accept his reasons for trying to dodge work. If he is unable to see reasonable things reasonably then move on. When painting my own car using my friends booth he suggested that I cut in the jambs, etc then assemble and paint the car whole. After telling him what my standards were he acknowleged that it was the better path but involved too much labor for him if he was to charge. (I did all of the work so what the hell) He just couldn't see laboring over a "lowly Datsun" since he's the T bucket/American musclecar type.

My thinking is that these are cars which we truly love therefore they deserve the best that we can afford them. Flaws in paint from cutting corners take away from the experience of pride in your ride.

2c

Jim

[JimmyZ]

BTW I think having the hood on the car for painting with the underside masked and painted would be acceptable. Fender and door "trees" can accept said items in the vertical position.

2.5c

Jim

Despite foam, backtaping etc you will still get a line when you mask. Such lines drive me nuts but to each his own.

[jillh1987]

i talked to my paint/body guy this afternoon on this exact topic...

...and quite frankLy, from our discussion...

it seems to be pretty much a crap shoot depending on a bunch of factors...

i picked a metallic paint and he still hem-hawed about doors on/off for paint.

he finally went with keeping them on...

...and after the doors are painted on, weLL then...

he would remove doors to paint the jambs...

what do i know?

i serve diet coke for a living......................

...and i don't want ANYBODY tellin me how!

...

mi 2 centavos

[JimmyZ]

It really depends on how much of a purist you are. If you're the type that just likes to have a nice looking car for daily use then leave the doors on. It will be cheaper and the body man won't cuss as much when he tries refitting the freshly painted doors. If you're going to be making a show car or have something which you've poured a lot of sweat (ie total strip and repaint) into then maybe you want the degree of perfection that comes with painting in pieces.

If you drive in an area where the car is likely to be in an accident then maybe the cheaper approach is better. At least this way you won't kill the person who bumped you.. You'll just hospitalize them.

Your bodyman probably knows where your ideals are for the paint job and is doing the right thing. My Z was painted while assembled the first time. (17yrs ago or so) The second time I chose to paint in pieces because I was the one doing the painting and all of the labor/headaches were mine. My color is solid and not metallic. The reason I chose to paint in pieces was also because the car was completely disassembled.

My bodyshop friend leaves the doors on, masks the interior and simply sprays the jambs by opening the doors. (In cases like yours) I'd rather cut the doors in first then assemble, mask and spray the outside. To each his own.

Your bodyman is doing the right thing.. Giving you a beautiful car while not breaking the bank.

2c,

Jim

[bob m]

I just brought my 72 z home from the paint shop. Like the other people said, the cost depends on how much work your car needs and what quality of job you are looking for. My paint checked so I had to strip the old paint to bare metal. I used a chemical stripper and gave the body shop the car in pieces. I thought my car was rust free until it was stripped, it was average for a garage kept z. I took the parts to the body shop and they sanded everything with 80 grit paper and epoxy primered everything. then they fitted all of the pieces back on the car and adjusted gaps and panels until they were perfect. Then they took the car apart and painted the door jams, window casings, etc. that are hard to paint when the car is assembled. Then the car was put together, block sanded and painted with the stock blue (with a slight metallic flake). I would say the car has a show car paint job. Two shops worked on the car, the body shop and the paint shop. I was asked all through the process " what do you want to do with this rust, misaligned panel, etc? It all added up to do it right.

I paid about $ 4500 for the body shop, $ 1000 for new parts and $ 5000 to the paint shop.

The work was done at Grace Autobody in San Bruno, California. I would highly recommend their work. I hope this gives you an idea of what a good paint job costs on a z that needs some rust repairs.

Bob M

[Exdamyankee]

Mine is in the shop right now being stripped to bare metal and painted. The job was quoted to me for a shade over $3500, which I think is a steal considering the scope of the work:

Remove glass & trim

Strip to bare metal

Repair a half dozen dings and imperfections

Prime

Block Sand & fill (repeat as necessary)

Paint in DuPont Chroma-Base (2 colors, metallic gray for the stripes, titanium silver for the rest of the car)

Paint & mount MSA Type II body kit.

I shopped for a while before settling on this bid. I'd been quoted as much as twice that amount for the job. As the work progresses I'm dropping in on the shop and inspecting the job--I am pleased so far.

Good luck, I think you can get what you want, it's just a matter of finding a shop that does good work and is hungry for the business.

[RolfSis]

You all sure know your stuff! Hats off to you. I'm trying to figure out as well, if it's worth taking my Bro's 1971 240Z with a 260Z engine (0ne owner, California treasure) off for repainting and updates or sell it as is for less. Any of your shared expertise is most appreciated. I'm a new gal on the 240Z scene in terms of actually doing research and finding so many helpful inputs from this site.

Anyway, here's where I am and really just want to thank you all for what you've shared here. I learned much, with so much more to learn........

http://www.creativecustomizedsolutions.atfreeweb.com/240Z-12.htm

new user, saying thanks.

Asta - Rolf's Sis

[240znz]

My car has had two new rear guards with doglegs, two new sills, under battery tray repairs, firewall repairs, frame rails repairs around sway bar mounts, new hatch threshold repairs, lower front guard repairs, new floor pans, bonnet leading edge repairs, valance repairs and little bits of rust here and there. Also the shell has been sand blasted. It has been assembled to check fitting and gaps.

Whole car gets etch primed then I fit the sound deadening. Etch prime again over the deadening cause it's waxy and paint won't stick. Fillers and sanding for at least a week. Then paint the underside with splatter. Then top coat of red underneath, engine bay and inside. I'll bring it home and fit re-assemble the entire car, test fire engine, test every electrical component to make sure that I don't have to remove the dash again. Then back to the shop to have the valance, guards, bonnet, doors and hatch fitted. Then spray the exterior with top coats. The idea behind this is to make sure that I don't scratch the body while re-assembly. It should work and although there will be a slight colour change in inside and out, it will be very difficult if impossible to notice.

Final cost is estimated to be just under US$15K. This is a full bare metal resto and this confirms that they aren't cheap by any means. Final paint colour alone is US$900.

Best way to decide IMO is to sit down and honestly appraise what you want. A show car or a nice daily that will last or something in between. Best money spent is in the prep work. For without good prep, the results are crap and you will have nothing but arguements, plus a empty wallet.