Looking to buy a '71 240z

[RolfSis]

Hubby helped me look through things again, and we get what you're saying. It makes total sense, but neither of us want to rip up either of the floors, which we think you're saying must be done. Is that right? Again, sorry that we just don't know this stuff. When the car was up on the lift, there were rust colored things, but when you put your fingers around any of the discolorations, they were all topical. Isn't is safe to deduce that all the rusty colorations are, indeed topical, and no need to rip up any floor things to determine truths about the rust?

[Carl Beck]

Maybe if I post pictures of some recent seat fixes, which include pictures of the floorboards on driver and passenger side, you can give me a clue. Thank you very much.

http://www.asta.bizhosting.com/OctoberUpdates-2.htm

Whoever sold you the car - used a spray can to paint over the floorboards. You can see the over-spray on the black vinyl, and it's the wrong color for a Series I Z...

Maybe they thought it would look bettter with fresh paint - maybe they though it would stop some rust that they saw, and maybe they were just trying to hid the rust they saw. The only way to know is to remove the tar mat. Takes about a day the first time - takes a couple of hours after you have done it several times.

Take a knife - and cut a line though that new green paint - and you will easily see that the paint is covering a black tar mat.. In other words, the green paint isn't on top of metal - rather it's on top of an old tar mat.

You can remove the tar mat by using a heat gun to warm the tar mat - then use a putty knife to peel it off the floorboards. It takes a little practice to get the process just right -heat it too much and it melts to adhear better to the metal - heat it too little and it breaks off in brittle chunks -- - but heat it just the right amount and the putty knife will roll it off the metal floorboards.

I agree with everyone - you have to remove the original tar mat to really see / inspect the floorboards.

As for the small hole under the seat - that is usually (not always) the result of rust that formed where the frame rail was welded to the unibody. You have to get under the car and look more closely at that area. If you catch it soon enough, it's easy to metal patch it (ie. weld a small piece of metal in place of the rust that has been cut out).

FWIW,

Carl B.

[Carl Beck]

When the car was up on the lift, there were rust colored things, but when you put your fingers around any of the discolorations, they were all topical. Isn't is safe to deduce that all the rusty colorations are, indeed topical, and no need to rip up any floor things to determine truths about the rust?

Sorry - that is completely WRONG and NOT SAFE AT ALL. The 240-Z's weight less than 2400 lbs. in part because the body is made of very thin sheetmetal. Surface rust, will work it's way though the very thin metal in very short order.

No fun removing that tar mat - but doing it NOW might save you the expense and work of replacing the floorboards six months from NOW.

FWIW,

Carl B.

[RolfSis]

Thank you so much for your input, Carl. We appreciate it. As always, a little wiser thanks to the time spent here with people in the know about the Z.

I must clarify a few things, though. This is my brother's Z and I'm trying to help him sell it. He's been the only owner, and it has lived in California all its life since he purchased it. It wasn't until I encouraged him to let me help him sell it that I found this site and received lots of guidance. It was the cleanup efforts I put into it (novice that I am) and a fresh coat of paint on the floorboards that I thought brightened it up, and apparently from your comments not the smartest move. That done, though, I do have the original photos on the links as well, and those when it was in the shop up on the lift. I definitely do not plan to rip up or cut into anything further, since we'll be putting it out to bid soon if no one locks in here. Since our Z has not been outside of California, and not experienced snow/ice/salt feel it's a jewel that someone with expertise, time and energy much younger than I will see this as "the one"! All these years, I thought what I / we saw when we lifted the floor carpets was the bottom of the car; thanks for the help in clarifying all of this.

My husband is a big man, and he's the driver, I'm the passenger when my Bro isn't driving it and quite honestly, none of us are lightweights and never felt a bit ill at ease or worried about the safety of this car. After seeing things up close and personal whilst up on the lift, still not worried. I've driven this, and it's powerful and fun but a bit low for me. I feel like I'm in a rocket ship when I hit the gas, .

Again, thank you for taking the time to teach me things.

":0) I should say that before I sprayed this touch up paint over the floorboards to brighten it up, it was already a green which was a tad darker and the original as best I can tell. When my Bro returns, I'll ask him if he ever had the "tar mats" painted, which would really surprise me. But then, 36 or so years of owning this gem, and preserving it for his son; who's to be sure?

Asta

[RolfSis]

Spoke with him and he is as baffled as am I. He never asked for any tar mat pull ups, or replacements or the like. We sure don't want to rip into anything, or drill stuff or whatever to ruin what is. Sorry, I don't get it. The hold I mentioned has normal rubbery kinds of plugs from what I can tell, and one of them apparently degraded and was wiped out by me when I was scrubbing things/cleaning things. The old Z mats were kinda dry underneath, so I cleaned them and stiched supporting indoor/outdoor carpet to them (makeshift) to retain original stuff as best I can, and minimize cost, thus the price to sell/recover.

Looks brighter, cleaner and the old mats aren't great, but work for us. Again, we're selling our Z, and most likely the buyer ultimately will have way more stuff they want to do to restore and have their own ideals, so it just doesn't make sense to me to spent time/energy and $s at this point that haven't already been spent. BUT, here to learn.

Again, thanks and appreciative.

[RolfSis]

I guess I lost you, CarlB, when you said "No fun removing that tar mat - but doing it NOW might save you the expense and work of replacing the floorboards six months from NOW." and I responded. Are you still listening to this thread?

I just don't get how or why a car that has not been in snow/ice/salt, etc., would have these kinds of issues. I've posted every picture ever taken since we embarked on the journey to sell our 1971 240Z, and even at the shop up on the lift for the first time in 6 months or so, didn't look troublesome. Maybe I still have more to learn, but asked the specialists at the shop, and they thought it looked quite good.

We'll be putting our Z up for bid this month (November), and will continue to explore/drive/assess our '71 240Z and appreciate all the help we've found at the Classic Z Cars site, and felt an update here needed.

Again, thank you for caring and sharing your expertise.

":0)

[ktm]

Rolf, listen to Carl about the tar mat. I have a 1972 240z that spent all of its life in Southern California. I bought the car from an owner in San Diego. All of the factory and aftermarket undercoating (Ziebart) was in great shape with no visible signs of rust.

Howver, I did see some cracks after I got under the car and started peeling the undercoating off the chassis. I then saw some surface rust along the frame rails which I treated immediately. I am going to replace these rails in the future as my car is putting down considerable power now.

When I bought the car I looked at the floor pans from inside the car and they looked GREAT. However, upon pulling up the tar mat on the passenger side, I found a 3 in. long, 0.25 in. wide rust hole in the pan right about the frame rail.

The tar mat had lost some of its adhesion over the years and water (from wet shoes, rain, whatever, had gottetn under the tar mat. You do not need to pull the tar mat up off the transmission tunnel, just the floor pans.

Please treat that surface rust NOW or else there will be issues in the future.

[beandip]

Just one more voice of experience. If the tar-mat was gone and if you didn't replace it . A perspective buyer would be impressed if the floors were not rusty and it would be a big plus. Don't do any more sewing some off the wall stuff on any carpet or anything. It just will draw attention to a amateurish attempt to conceal something. Even if it wasn't the intent. Just clean off the dirt and grease from the engine and the engine compartment. Clean the glass and buy some Mcguires detail spray and do the dash and seats and all the vinyl . Polish the paint and wheels. You should be good to go. The engine should run and idle smooth and change the oil and filter. Shows the car was well taken care of. Black oil is a big turn off. Especially with a educated buyer of a Z. They will be looking for rust first and foremost, and any cover up of it, then the rest of the car. I know you said that the car is a California car, this dosn't make any difference if water was left on soaked carpet. Could be from rain or just washing the Z, As Carl said the floors can rust a way in a few months and how old did you say the car is. I have a '73 240 and I know about rust. 2 cts. Gary:rambo:

[RolfSis]

Thank you for your excellent guidance. Much to do; would a hair dryer work to heat the tar mat?

[EScanlon]

You might want to consider using Dry Ice. One of the other members on the board came up with this, and I helped a friend do it on his 1200 and it worked very well and quickly.

Take a look at this thread:

http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16546

FWIW

E

[BRE-240Z]

You might want to consider using Dry Ice. One of the other members on the board came up with this, and I helped a friend do it on his 1200 and it worked very well and quickly.

I did mine using a cheap variant of this method also. Parked the car outside on a cold day, then went out and got to work with a hammer and a chisel. No dry ice was required.

I have never tried the 'heat gun' method, but the cold therapy treatment worked well for me.....

[Ramses]

I have been lurking around for a bit and I thought I would reply to this. Oregon, I purchased my z on Ebay, put a bid on it while drunk and eventually won. Fortunately I only paid $500.00 for her and I got what I thought was a running, minimal rust 240z. What it turned out to be was something that was infested with rust, after I removed the tar-mat. I could see holes up to the size of a basketball in the floors, rust under the battery tray, the dog-legs and the rear hatch panel. I used a repair sheet metal kit from MSA to replace the floors and rear hatch panel. The rest I used scrap sheet metal which was welded in. After about 5 years, I am very happy with my baby and it gets a lot of compliments. The rust areas were bigger than the repair panels so I had to use sheet metal to patch the remaining holes. I have attached pics. If you notice, I purchased the less expensive repair panels that do not have the drain holes in them. I should of spent the extra money and done it right, but you do live and learn. Good luck with your z and be ready to spend some money, I have over 9k into her now and it still needs work. I did not replace the tar-mat with anything and the car is very noisy, so be careful.