Looking to buy a '71 240z

[EScanlon]

Asta:

I can empathize with your reluctance at taking the floor tar mat off. This is a double edged sword problem.

It doesn't look like it needs it, and you don't want to invest the money and time into it.

A knowledgeable Z buyer will know that the original tar-mat indicates a high probability of problems underneath. There will be some who will comment otherwise, but the vehicles they will be referring to will have been garaged, and kept "closeted" for the majority of their existence.

Not saying that they won't have problems too, but rather that a vehicle that has been driven, both in the sun and rain, more than likely parked outdoors, and in general DRIVEN...will have a higher likelihood of rust below the tar-mat. That's just the nature of it. It wasn't applied after the paint protected the metal, but before the paint, hoping that the paint would seal the edges. It did not, and the majority of vehicles have some rust on the floor pan because of the tar mat did not fully adhere or remain afixed to the metal.

Your option is to leave it as it is and know that a knowledgeable buyer will see and use that as a leverage point to talk your price down, while a non-knowledgeable buyer will not question it and may find rusted floors later if and when he does check into it. That's one edge of the sword.

If you do address the issue there is the probability that you WILL find rust. If you address it properly and document what you do with pictures, it ~may~ help bolster or even help you raise your price. There are no guarantees on that. That's the other edge of the sword.

What we've tried to show you is what we would do to preserve the vehicle.

FWIW

E

[Arne]

Trust me Asta, a knowledgeable Z buyer will want to see what the tar-mat might be hiding. I just pulled it (finally) on my yellow project Z, and what looked to be fairly solid turned out to be quite bad. Yours may be OK, but you'll never know until you pull it up and check.

[Brooks240z]

Ramses,

I got a fairly "good" deal on mine as well. I found out after I purchased the Z that the passenger floor pan has a hole about the size of a baseball. More than likely will have to have the floor panel replaced along with the frame rail. I will more than likely buy a floorboard from Charlie Osborne as I have heard great things about his floors. Does anybody have a rough estimate of what a reasonable price is to have a floor board welded in from a professional along with a frame rail welded in as well. Looking for a reasonable price as right now I have no idea what that would cost. Trying to educate myself on this issue.

By the way I do have a few issues on my Z that need immediate attention. The hood latch cable is frayed near the end and will allow you to pull it but it does not put the latch back in the correct position to secure the hood down. Has anyone fixed their cable and is it a tough fix or fairly easy one?

Also my e-brake cable is broken at the left rear wheel. Is this a pretty complex fix or something anyone can really do? I am mechanical but by no means a full on mechanic like many of you are on this site.

Regards,

Brooks

[Arne]

Brooks, the quick and fairly affordable fix for the hood release cable is to replace it. I bought a new one from my local dealer last winter - it was $30 after club discount. Or you could look for a decent used one.

The parking brake cable is not really repairable either, but is considerably more expensive new, around $125 or more.

As it turns out, I might be able to help you on both of those parts with good used. PM me, or I think you have my e-mail.

[RolfSis]

Thanks bunches for taking the time! My Hubby spent the past 2 days ripping out the Tar Mats (chisel/hammer/muscle) and it was enlightening! Same as before the Tar Mat was taken up, little discoloration, but also little rust so I'm thinking they're one in the same. All I did was to dilute CLR with 50% water and a rag to just rug things down, and followed up some with a wire brush, and it all looks good/silver and is LOUD! Now that the tar mat is gone, it just sounds a bit louder, though still GOOD! Very Z-like!

Will follow up with pictures soon (maybe). Want to get things done, wrap it up and put her out to bid!

Here's my thing! We keep doing stuff, but we're not in any way experts, and potentially spinning our wheels, 'cause eventually the Z lover who is luck enough to buy this one, will put his/her own spin on things so don't want to keep spending $s and energy doing stuff that will be redone!

Thank goodness for hubby and his muscles, 'cause there's no way I could have gotten all of the things done that he's help magically fix (seat, etc.)

Keep smiling, it's a sweeter image than a frown.

[BRE-240Z]

Ramses,

I got a fairly "good" deal on mine as well. I found out after I purchased the Z that the passenger floor pan has a hole about the size of a baseball. More than likely will have to have the floor panel replaced along with the frame rail. I will more than likely buy a floorboard from Charlie Osborne as I have heard great things about his floors. Does anybody have a rough estimate of what a reasonable price is to have a floor board welded in from a professional along with a frame rail welded in as well. Looking for a reasonable price as right now I have no idea what that would cost. Trying to educate myself on this issue.

Hi Brooks....I just had this done a few weeks back. Old pan zipped out, old frame rail removed (or more likely it fell off), new pan welded in, new frame rail installed.....

I ended up paying a shade under $400 to have this done, but I should mention that the pan was coated top and bottom, at the shop, with POR-15. If you wanted to save a couple of bucks, you could do that part yourself.

[RolfSis]

Wow, Arne, what a job! It's definitely a bit louder. Some updates on our stuff here:

http://asta.bizhosting.com/november_updates.htm

The more I learn, the more I realize there is to learn. Whew! ":0)

[EScanlon]

Asta:

Take pictures before and after what you've done. This will help bolster your price to your buyer.

Now that you've dealt with the rust beneath the tar mat, and thankfully it wasn't an issue. It's similar to a mammogram or prostate check, very distasteful and you wish you could avoid it but it's better to get it checked than to ignore it and suffer the consequences of having overlooked something.

As far as reducing the sound inside the car.

First finish the rust removal with a good rust-proofer (although that can be called an "oxy-moron" since you can't "proof" it), such as POR or Zero Rust or Rust-Bullet, but at least as far using a good coat of paint.

Next, re-apply either a tar mat, or a Dynomat or Brown-Bread on top of that paint. You're probably wondering why you removed the original in the first place....because it is notorious for HIDING rust. The original was not applied over a properly prepared metal coating. As a result, there are countless vehicles with pristine tar-mat just hiding a rusted floor pan.

Whether you opt for Q-pads, Dynomat, Brown Bread, or even a spray on coating is up to you and your budget/time.

For the ease of application, because it comes in roughly 12" square pieces, the Q-Pads by Evercoat may be the easiest to apply. You can place them, get them sized and generally shaped as you need, then cut with either a razor blade or scissors. Then peel off the plastic backing and glue them down. They come ready to apply.

That will once again restore the silence to the metal and it won't reverberate as it is now.

FWIW

E

[EScanlon]

Looked at the pictures on your update, if you look at the lines of rust that you DID have beneath the floor mat you can see how those would be hidden and could potentially have been much worse.

To remove the last of the tar mat, you can use plain old Mineral Spirits or Acetone and that will give you a completely clean and smooth floor which will allow you to paint and re-apply the tar-mat.

E

[RolfSis]

First of all, thanks! You've been so helpful, and patient with a novice like me (us). We have neither the skills/patience nor the tools to continue updating things with our Z and that I'm thinking that much of what we've done the past 3 months will likely be undone and redone by the ultimate buyer of our gem. The loudness is kinda neat.... it shows/resounds the energy of this baby.

I do hope we'll list this on eBay next Thursday to sell it (checking with my brother to confirm within the next week, but think we're on point with that goal). I feel as though I've spent tons of hours doing things that will be redone and thus wasteful since ultimately, most of my/our novice efforts will be completely irrelevant when the bottom line is "new owner" who'll do their own thing with her.

GADZOOKS! Who'd ever have thought that fiddling with a 240Z would be such an adventure. To me, it's been a real learning experience, but I would not have had it (nor any of us) without you and this site. There is such magnificent dedication and skill here that it's a tad mind-boggling. I/we've loved every minute of it. The only downside I personally feel, is that she feels kinda like a piece of "us" and that I want to fix everything that isn't 100% perfect. Again, no skills, but worked it. The bummer is that the more I fiddle and seek, the more I find (maybe because I've messed with the wrong wire or whatever). The wipers worked fine, now not. Followed some recommendations to clean the engine bay stuff with "green" (forget the name for now), and maybe killed the wipers. WHEW! End of rant.

Anyway, thank you thank you thank you.

My thinking at this point is to STOP STOP STOP our work and let her go! Am I wrong? (remember we have little Z skills and limited tools).... We've had people in the area check her out and intrigued at the $4100 so maybe we should just really STOP! Here are the things that I've found which I was happier not knowing, but want to share:

Roof has old not beautiful clear coat peeling. I applied wax and it looks nifty. Then I wet it down and take my fingernails to scuff off the peeling shiny layer and it works. Then was that and it looks nifty. It's needing someone who knows what they're doing. Clearly, the new owner will want to do everything on their own. Also see that when the boot tromping creep at the "WHO" concert tromped the Z and my brother had it all fixed, some residual scuffs/scratches are showing through, though minimal. Then another expert here recommended that I check out the underneath of the battery and I find that it does have rust in the engine bay under the battery.

?????????????????? what do you think of all of this? Am I a space cadette, or is it plausible to STOP and put her out to bid?

I hope to add some more pictures here of my findings... hope I can. Hang in there and again, at the cost of redundancy THANKS BUNCHES!

[RolfSis]

I had the before pictures, and fairly confident they're here on this site in my many attempt to share and show. Hindsight! Not the greatest of things. ":0(

[RolfSis]

SORRY! the picture of the rust under the battery didn't show, so trying again. The weatherproofing (or rubber gaskets at the top of the hood when you open her up is old and crunchy and likely how/why any water would have gotten in and collected). I have photos of those, and looks kinda easy to replace; though not sure. Anyway, in the interim, covered her up to keep her dry! Much needed rain should come tomorrow.

I was thinking that I'd include this basic 240Z link on eBay next Thursday when we bite the bullet and put her out to bid. It makes sense to share the link to this site and all the expertise derived, no? Additionally think it's only right to share this site because it's been a learning experience and we've all appreciated the help and others may also benefit from the links and interactions and history/disclosures of this Z as we've gone through the process.

WHEW!