New to the forum and new to my 240z

[xeros15]

My name is Art and I am addicted to cars.

Well this would be my first Z car purchase and I have yet to pick it up. Trip for flor,ida is planned for this friday. I was just wondering a about a few things that I havent been able to get a concrete answer to. If I were to go and restore this car woudl I be able to sell it for more later with a 280zx engine upgraded brakes and suspension or shoudl I just stick to all stock restoration aside from the ZG flares? The main purpose of this car was to restore it at my shop keep it around as a bit of show off and advertisment and then sell it for some profit. I ask this because not all collector cars are treated that same and regarded with the same approach. Not a big fan of carbs and woudl rather have a fuel injected turbo setup.

Thanks for the help.

Art.

[Fun_in_my_z]

Im sorry but their is no profit in restoring z cars. You will put more in it then you will get out.

[Carl Beck]

Timing is everything.

Had you bought a very clean 240-Z 10 years ago, you would have had to pay around $3,500.00 to $4,500.00. That would have bought you a one owner, mostly rust free, mostly original 240-Z with less than 60K miles. One which still had it's original factory paint in good shape, shinny bumpers and trim and a clean interior.

Had you taken that car completely apart - and preformed a correct restoration, putting it back to "as it left the factory" condition - - doing most of the grunt work yourself, and farming operations like paint and body work out to professionals - - you would most likely have spent in the neighborhood of an additional $10K to $12K.

With $13.5K to $16.5K cash in the car - it would sell for between $20K and $25K today, if it had been maintained in freshly restored condition.

At that point, you could have owned and enjoyed the car for 10 years, had fun doing the restoration and sold it for more than you had in it. Making a $3,500.00 to $8,500.00 gross profit. (net is a different story however, when you take insurance, storage costs, license fees etc into consideration)

Alternatively - if you had just keep the car in the same or slightly better condition than you found it in - today it would sell for $7,500.00 to $9,500.00 perhaps more...

While you can still find clean, mostly rust free, one owner 240-Z's that have had great loving care their entire life; and which still have less than 75K miles... for $9,500.00 or so ... The cost of restoration is now about two to three times as much as it would have been 10 years ago. Most paint and body work has doubled and most of the needed replacement parts are three to four times as much. (very limited supply at a time when demand is at its greatest).

To do a #1 or #2 condition restoration today, when it's all said and done, will cost at least $20K and it's pretty easy to spend $30K.

Nonetheless, 10 years from now, a Pure Stock, perfectly restored Datsun 240-Z could easily be selling for $40K to $50K.

Modify it, with an L28, drill holes to mount the fender flairs... paint it a non-stock color etc etc... and the market value will most likely be less than a third of a pure stock example. Lose the original matching number L24 and it would most likely bring even less.

The best buy in todays market is the #1 or #2 example you can buy for $18K to $23K... You can't begin to restore one today, to that condition for less than twice the price.

Second best buy is the clean, mostly rust free, one owner car - that has had great care for its lifetime and which has 80K to 120K miles - but which is still stock and original. You can buy them for $10K, drive and enjoy them with very little additional investment (less than $5K)... and ten years from now you would not lose much if any money...

FWIW,

Carl B.

[xeros15]

Im pretty sure I mentioned I had a shop right? But in other words this rust free no runnign engine 240z is pretty much just gunna be another money pit with no real return?

[EScanlon]

Your initial post says that you would be open to profit from the car OTHER than from it's sale.

The main purpose of this car was to restore it at my shop keep it around as a bit of show off and advertisment...

If that is one way you measure "profit" AND you do a good job working on the car such that it reflects well on your shop, then you WILL profit by it.

But if you meant:

Purchase price, PLUS all the items you would buy, PLUS your labor, THEN SUBTRACTED from the final sale price would be a POSITIVE number.....hmmm, I don't think so but stranger things can happen.

Like Carl mentioned, there are a lot of variables to that equation and some of them have come and gone.

Plus, you don't mention how long between start and finish. If you hold on to the car for another 30 years ....heck you might get more money but inflation may have taken it's toll and you'd actually net less.

If you're thinking of "flipping" it, as people try to do in Real Estate....again, it would depend on a lot of factors.

If it were that simple to turn a quick profit, you'd be surprised at the number of owners that would be flipping cars like pancakes.

E

[Carl Beck]

You mentioned "a shop" but I doubt anyone, myself included, has any idea of what that means. A Body Shop, a Tire Shop, a Plating Shop, an Upholstery Shop?.... you'll need them all to refresh or restore a 240-Z.

Does "no running engine" mean that the original engine is still with the car, but in non-running condition, or does it mean that the original engine is no longer with the car?

A money pit with no real return?... Depends on what you paid for it to begin with, and how much of the original car you can refresh and reuse. Then it depends on the quality of the work done, the location into which you try to sell it and how much time/effort you are willing to put into advertising, promoting, showing and selling.

If you can pick up a clean body shell for around a grand, if you keep close track of a rebuild budget, shop for price on everything you need to buy and do a bang-up job on the paint/body work.. A 240-Z with a good running L28 (non turbo) could easily bring $5,500.00 to $6,500.00... With a good running L28 ET (turbo) you might find a buyer with the cash at $8,500.00 (but it gets harder to find them)

To make a project like that work out - you almost have to have a shop that specializes in 240-Z's. Where you would have lots of spare parts cars to draw from, known vendors to supply parts you still need at wholesale pricing, and perhaps other friends with which speciality work could be traded.

Given the time and effort involved, given the expense involved... you might make a small profit, but it is unlikely to justify your time.

On the other hand - if it is used to promote the business and your skills -it is at least tax deductible and most of the return would be in personal satisfaction and ownership fun anyway.

FWIW,

Carl B.

[red_dog007]

I think that you will be lucky to brake even.

Even if you stock restore it, or upgrade everything, or even drop a any kind of motor in it, I think that you will be lucky to brake even.

Even with your own Car Shop, you might be able to save labor hours with having all the tools you need, but with parts and how cheap even 100% awesome looking cars sell for, you shouldn't get much out of it.

Maybe if you take it to NOPI and start winning, then you might get a pretty penny offer.

This is just my opinion, but seems to hold true with current prices of Z cars.

[DeMoore]

Red Dog and Fun are right, the Z is not the car to make money off of. You could easily drop 6000 into a Z and not be able to sell it for more than 4. It all depends, though. Sometimes you can get a buyer looking for exactly what you are selling. For profit, I would definitely look at another car. The Z is for Z lovers.