Is it generally hard to sell an original series 1 240z?

[rdefabri]

Some good responses here - but to answer your question directly, I'd say "Yes" - it is hard to sell an original 240Z.

Here's my take on why - who is your target customer?

If it's a 20-something looking for something cool and quick - Honda Civics are in this range and they're a little easier to get parts for.

If it's a collector that doesn't have specific knowledge or interest in Z's beyond the basic - they'll generally bite for more "exotic" machinery. I put my Z up for sale twice - nary a bite. My E-Type isn't even for sale and I get offers all the time (!)

If it's a hardcore Z fanatic, then you see from the posts here - they'll (correctly) scrutinize the car and know every issue/cost/time to restore it, so likely not going to buy unless it's a screaming deal.

As I mentioned, I had mine up for sale twice - both times cheaper than your asking price, and I'd say my car is in slightly better shape than yours. I couldn't understand the issue, but after thinking about it, it became clear that it doesn't have enough mass market appeal, and the hardcores know what they are buying.

Time may change this as we are seeing a swing towards classic Japanese machinery. I caught the "Car Crazy" show that had Ron Carter's BRE replica, and one of the participants at the Monterey Historics mentioned the value that classic Japanese cars have as collectibles. I thought it was a nice plug and evidence that it's changing. For reference, this guy was driving a classic Alfa from the war/pre-war era. Probably a $1M car, and he's talking about Japanese cars...that should tell you something.

I am certainly a big proponent of the Z and it's significance in auto history should not be taken lightly. However, I think the early 240s (especially in average shape) are only somewhat better than Triumphs, Opel GTs, Saab Sonnetts, etc in terms of desirability, but not much.

You really need to sell to someone that is/was like me when I bought - I was pretty hardcore about Z's, but out of the game for 20+ years. I was hungry for an original 240Z (any year) but not a trailer queen, and I was not a recent owner, so I didn't have current data or any reference beyond the Z I owned 20 years prior. I paid a decent price, but not a great price, and I was ok with that. The car runs and drives and it's in good shape, especially for an East Coast car, so I got what I paid for. The guy I bought it from was in the mid-South, he had the car on this board for probably 3 months at least.

If I were you, I'd advertise locally in something like the Auto Shopper (which you have in NYC). The Auto Shopper allows you to provide a pic, and it's fairly local, which helps subliminally sell the Z on the East Coast value prop. Forget eBay, as the value there is opening up your ad to a broader range of eyeballs, but most warm climate buyers have a better selection, so it hurts you in terms of price.

BTW, I was born in Brooklyn - where abouts are you?

[moonpup]

....snip...However, I think the early 240s (especially in average shape) are only somewhat better than Triumphs, Opel GTs, Saab Sonnetts, etc in terms of desirability, but not much.

Have you been drinking? :eek:

[rdefabri]

Hahah! I wish I was drinking!

I know that's a controversial statement - it's sort of hard to articulate it, because I am a guy that feels Z's could be/will be extremely desirable in the very near future.

It's more an observation - think of who might buy an Opel GT. It's not going to be a collector like the people at the Monterey Historics. Nor is it going to be some kid that wants a "tuner" car (e.g., Civic, Focus, etc.).

Nope, the Opel buyer will likely be someone that likes Opels - someone pretty into them in fact. While the Z is higher on the food chain, and there are probably more Z lovers than Opel lovers, it's the same paradigm.

Contrast that to a Corvette or my E-Type. I could sell that E-Type to a little old lady that could care less about cars - that's how desirable the car is. It transcends the Jaguar "club" and has broader appeal.

My comments were just about that - the Z still appeals to a more focused group (albeit broader than Opels, for sure). My own experience with trying to sell my Z sort of validates this in my mind.

[geezer]

Have you been drinking? :eek:

HaHa!! I was thinking something like that too. Z's are like little brothers. We can trash talk them, but don't let anyone else try. Just like this threads subject car. We all see the problems with it but still love it. I'm betting, even though I think it is a bit over priced, 5 years from now, it will sound like a great deal. XKE's are timeless classics in my book and S30's are coming into their own as time passes and fewer of them exist. That's why it is such a tough decision to restore or part out sometimes.

[Sailor Bob]

I have stayed out of this conversation til some of the heavyweights weighed in - you guys have overhauled most of the isses. I'm not certain that all is out yet.

Some of you are aware that I am looking. I like this car, I would have bought it at the correct price, but the issue is reduced to how much money is one willing to invest overall. I would like to have a nice driver on the road for under $10K. I think this car has barrels of potential, but to get it working I can see my whole winter gone + 5-6K + shipping and whatever suprises arise. As you know if front fenders look like they need work - you will need to take a look behind them in the drain passage - could get into lots of OMGs.

At $2000 I would take it on.

[rdefabri]

Well, I am an owner, so I guess I can trash a little

But understand, I am not trashing the Z - only answering the man's question - it's my opinion that it's hard to sell an original, early Z that's not a full-on resto or a warm climate car. A car like his - one that needs work - is a tougher sell. There's still plenty of them around to warrant the depressed pricing and limited market. However, I agree with you that in in time less will be available, and there will be a better ratio of "good" ones to "needs work" ones to justify the appreciation in price.

He won't sell it here because we all think it's "overpriced". He won't sell it to some kid, who would rather not take the risk. Therefore, one could conclude that it's harder to sell a car like that, in that condition.

[xray]

Hahah! I wish I was drinking!

I know that's a controversial statement - it's sort of hard to articulate it, because I am a guy that feels Z's could be/will be extremely desirable in the very near future.

I don't think it's controversial at all. The Z was the main competitor for the TR6, 2002, MGB-GT and Opel GT in its time, and are pretty close to the same rung now on the Classic Sportscar ladder (except maybe Opel, which is more toward Spitfires, MG Midgets etc). Pricing by SCM, NADA etc all put them in the same ballpark (15-25k), depending on resto quality, rarity etc.

Of course, the Z put both Triumph and MG on life support when it came out, but that's a different storyline...

So....Is it hard to sell a series I Z? Right now probably so, especially as people get spooked by economic issues (dollar's value, subprime crisis etc) and feel they can't spend money on something "frivolous" like an old car. There's already a major impact on collectibles at the highest end of the specturm...(eg, Christie's stock has taken a HUGE hit in recent months, dropping from $250 to $180/share) So if folks with serious cash to spend on collectibles are feeling the pinch, Joe and Jane Average are going to also.

Of course, if you're in the right position great deals can be had in the coming months....

Steve

[geezer]

Sailor Bob - Am I correct in assuming the two major points of appeal are; it's a series 1 & it is mostly intact? Otherwise the '71 listed on Ebay in Montreal falls into the road ready under $10,000 category. A nice weekend road trip to boot. Just curious because this series 1 in question will end up costing as much or more in my opinion, even if you could buy it for $2000.

[newspeed]

rdefabri - I think your response made the most sense and was the most acceptable explanation. One thing has been made very clear to me, the car will most likely NOT be sold to someone who already owns a s30 Z. You were completely correct in the statement when you said they over scrutinize every issue and possible cost. While it would be really helpful to sell the car right now I am not at the point where i am going to give it away for some of the prices thrown out. Surely i am pretty flexible on the price but to a certain degree.

Admittedly, i originally bought a z because of my time lurking on hybridz.org and wanted to restore it and at the same time modify and swap in a more modern drive train. With my luck i realized the car i bought for this purpose is so original and complete that i have not had the heart to "bastardize" it. Most everyone who has seen the car said it would be a shame to do so to this car as it would be destroying a part of history.

From some of the prices thrown out I am starting to rethink the whole originality thing. Apparently nobody seems to care that this is a stock and unmolested car with many of the original 37 year old parts in excellent condition.

The thought of parting it out is coming into my head again and quite honestly I think i can sell a just a few select pieces and get the same $2000 people are offering for the whole car. How much is an original series 1 uncracked dash worth on ebay? the flawless series 1 steering wheel? (i personally saw one sell on ebay recently for over $250) the factory AM stereo, wheels/tires, misc interior panels, SU carbs, air cleaner, tail lights, etc... see what i mean?

[psdenno]

newspeed,

Point well made about an unrestored car - just about any car - being worth more as parts than as a whole. A lot of people make a lot of money working than angle of the auto hobby. Currently, I'm sitting on a '66 Mustang 2+2 GT for the same reason as you're dealing with your Z.

[Arne]

Sailor Bob - Take it from me for experience. If you want a nice driver for less than $10k, buy one that's already finished. Buying one to restore won't pencil out unless you can do the body and paint yourself.

From some of the prices thrown out I am starting to rethink the whole originality thing. Apparently nobody seems to care that this is a stock and unmolested car with many of the original 37 year old parts in excellent condition.

The originality thing is a HUGE deal - if everything else is right too. But it's a selling feature, not so much something that adds to the selling price. If your car and a less original car are priced in the same ballpark, any enthusiasts will go for the more original car, and even pay a bit more for it. But they won't pay a lot more. If a '72 or '73 240Z with similar rust issues is a $1500 to $2000 car in your part of the country, yours may be worth $2500 since it is earlier and very original. But it won't be worth double.

[Sailor Bob]

Yup - Series 1 and mostly original are the eye catchers, I like the idea that no one (as described) has been packing around with it befor (too much other than obvious bodywork). If I was certain it was only panels to be done - I might go a bit more than 2k, but east coast cars ????

I kinda like the colour as well, baby puke/crap yellow appeals to me.