Honda Wiper Motor Upgrade for the 240Z

[74260zt]

I'll take that 2nd box, if still avail.

[biddljj]

I second it... you da man thanks

It's off to the junk yards after xmas

[280~Master]

Looks good. You have taken some time out to make sure you did it right nice job. I have got to get this done on my 280Z.

[Zs-ondabrain]

If you get it to work in the 280, post the results and findings and any changes compared to the 240Z upgrade.

As for the second harness that is available. You'd need a honda motor with a long harness attached to the motor. I will be making these to each persons specs, (with or without Datsun plug, with or without Honda plug, length of wires per side) and they will start at $35.00

if you're interested, DO NOT request here on this forum, but rather via PM or my email below, in my signiture. I'm trying to keep my word with Mike and not get called a spammer again. Even though the full description and diagrams are here and can easily be done by Z car owners, I will make them for those not up to the challenge of "Do It Yourself"

Dave.

[Zs-ondabrain]

Just a quick update, I just did a 94 Accord motor into a 72' 240Z. The problem with the 94 is not wiring or mounting but rather the shaft has to be ground down to fit the keyhole shape of the 240Z's wiper linkage.

The problem with this is the way the linkage works, it has to be cut at an exact angle. I drew on a pic of the 94 so you can see what I mean. If you set the motor on it's end, with the gears pointing up, the motor needs to ran and use my harness to get the motor to PARK, then mark a line from the upper right mount to the center of the motors shaft.

That is the angle that it needs to be cut at. Remove a little material at a time, test fit on the wiper linkage, remove a little more, etc, etc. remove material 9/16" down the shaft. This will give enough room for the linkage, lock washer, and the nut.

Once again, the 91' civic is ALREADY cut at this angle and will slide into the Datsun wiper linkage with NO alteration And that's why I chose the 91 instead of the 94. The 94 Accord will work as well but need modification at an exact angle.

Dave.

[Carl Beck]

Hi Dave / everyone:

Great article and greatly appreciated I'm sure. Nonetheless, I have some questions in my mind... call it curiosity really.

First:

I do not remember the wipers being any problem at all when the 240-Z's were new. Yes they could have had a faster speed.... but they would run on a dry windshield no problem.

On most of the Z's I've worked on - with 30+ years of age and wear - it's not the motor that is slowing down, it is the linkage pivot points that become corroded, the grease that drys out and hardens etc. In which case, you have to take the linkage apart, de-corrode the stub axles/hubs (so to speak), re-lubricate them. In some cases the corrosion has destroyed the metal, and they have to be replaced. I suppose the gear drive mechanism itself suffers from the same causes.

By making the Honda Motor swap - - - are you simply using brute force to overcome the real problem of sticky/corroded pivot points in the linkage/wiper drive shafts?

Second:

Is the 91 Honda "Motor" really that much stronger/more powerful than the original Datsun Motor - - OR - - is the gearing on the drive mechanism the reason for the better performance on the Honda? (ie. gear reduction starters or more modern magnets in the motors themselves).

Do you know how many amps each motor draws?

Third:

If the 91 Honda Motor Assembly uses the same output shaft - - - would it be possible to simply swap only the motor (wondering if the motor has the same input shaft???) .... That is to say take only the electric motor from the Honda and adapt it to the Datsun gear drive and wiring?

Like I said - just curious....

FWIW,

Carl B.

[TomoHawk]

I'll be taking my drive unit apart soon, so I'll keep some notes on what I find.

What is involved in getting the Honda motor off the car? You canprobably get at it just by lifting the bonnet, right?

thxZ

[Zs-ondabrain]

Hi Dave / everyone:

Great article and greatly appreciated I'm sure. Nonetheless, I have some questions in my mind... call it curiosity really.

First:

I do not remember the wipers being any problem at all when the 240-Z's were new. Yes they could have had a faster speed.... but they would run on a dry windshield no problem.

On most of the Z's I've worked on - with 30+ years of age and wear - it's not the motor that is slowing down, it is the linkage pivot points that become corroded, the grease that drys out and hardens etc. In which case, you have to take the linkage apart, de-corrode the stub axles/hubs (so to speak), re-lubricate them. In some cases the corrosion has destroyed the metal, and they have to be replaced. I suppose the gear drive mechanism itself suffers from the same causes.

By making the Honda Motor swap - - - are you simply using brute force to overcome the real problem of sticky/corroded pivot points in the linkage/wiper drive shafts?

Second:

Is the 91 Honda "Motor" really that much stronger/more powerful than the original Datsun Motor - - OR - - is the gearing on the drive mechanism the reason for the better performance on the Honda? (ie. gear reduction starters or more modern magnets in the motors themselves).

Do you know how many amps each motor draws?

Third:

If the 91 Honda Motor Assembly uses the same output shaft - - - would it be possible to simply swap only the motor (wondering if the motor has the same input shaft???) .... That is to say take only the electric motor from the Honda and adapt it to the Datsun gear drive and wiring?

Like I said - just curious....

FWIW,

Carl B.

On the 1st,

As usual, you are correct in the fact that 27 years ago, my wipers slid across a dry window without fail. When I tore mine apart 4 years ago, I completely rebuilt the linkage by using degreasers and other grease and gunk removing chemicals to make sure there was a blank canvas to start rebuilding. I regrease with a white lithium cause it's light weight, sprays into all crevises and waterproof. Everything moved like a hot knife thru butter.

I then completely rebuilt the motor and tranny by once again removing every bit of old grease and gunk that could possibly hinder performance or movement. Every contact was cleaned, every gear regreased, every contact rebent or fixed fixed for optimum performance. So after COMPLETELY rebuilding everything in the wiper system, it moved nicer, quieter, and stronger. BUT, not strong enough.

I ran a NEW power and ground directly from the battery, and ran thru the speeds using good grounds and tested all movement compared to stock wiring. The change was little if any. So in final, The combination of 33 years (at the time) old gearing technology and old old wiring, the facts are as simple as this.... The 16 year old Honda motor has experience on it's side, a better wound motor, more torque and less ampearge use.

on the 2nd,

Yes, it is that much stronger/ more powerful. And yes, the Honda motor (in my experience and opinion) has better gearing and motor performance due to years of experience. I do not personally know the Amperage draw of each motor (Honda/Datsun) but I CAN tell you that the wiper related wires do NOT get as hot, as quick, with the Honda motor in , as compared to the datsun Motor. Fact. SO that tells me that the Honda draws less amperage than the Datsun motor.

On the third, (3.1)

The shaft of the Honda motor is similar but not Identical. It's a little smaller in diameter and width, but still slides into the Datsun arm with little play. Part 3.2....The motors and transmissions are NOT interchangable. The Honda motor is smaller and its main shaft is also a different diameter and won't interchange with the datsun drive gear.

So in final, The Honda motor is just plain better, better use of gearing, better use of power and amperage, not as old and worn due to twice as many years on the job like the Datsun Motor. Just like any upgrade, it's done because of wanting something better, newer or up to date technology, etc. The upgrade is only for those who want to spend 1 hour upgrading their wipers to a more modern approach or solution. But if they wanna completely rebuild their OEM equipment and find a small improvement, that's totally up to them. It's all about personal choice.

I'll be taking my drive unit apart soon' date=' so I'll keep some notes on what I find.

What is involved in getting the Honda motor off the car? You canprobably get at it just by lifting the bonnet, right? [/quote']

There are only a few 10mm bolts holding the wiper assembly onto the Honda Civic, then 3) 10mm bolts holding the motor to the wiper assembly, and one 12mm nut holding the linkage arm to the motor. Make sure to KEEP the 3) 10mm bolts and the washer and 12mm nut, as you will need them on your conversion. Also, unplug the motor and cut 6" of wire on the male plug (coming from the engine harness on the Civic) and remove the male plug with it's 6" of wire for use on your conversion in your Z. DO NOT cut the female plug from the motor, only the male plug from the civic.

DAve.

[dogma420]

It should also be noted that the issues we've all had with very slow windshield wipers--

When I replaced the stalks hardward (the part that goes through the cowl that the arms attach to--the motion was just like this new Civic setup--so my wipers now act much more like any other car.

so I believe that most of the slow down is caused by rusty/non greased wiper stalks in the first place.

I found almost new 280z wiper linkage that came with the wiper mount stalks, and this did the trick for me.

[Zs-ondabrain]

So I had some time and found my wiper delay unit from years ago, that never got installed. Now that I figured out the whole relay for the park circuit thing, I attempted to install the Delay unit, with success.

So here are three wiring diagrams for the HELLA delay unit (HL87200) , AQUUS 9030 delay unit (I think I got it from Schucks Auto Supply), and a universal drawing for other makes of delay units. On the instructions for your particular delay unit, it should show you which wires are (COM) (N/O) and (N/C). These wires are pointed out on the Universal drawing. (COM) to the motor, (N/C) to the switch, and (N/O) to the Park wire (Blue/white wire) If that not park it correctly, use an IN4001 diode from the Blue Datsun wire to the Blue/white "Park" wire, with the stripe on the diode facing the blue (low speed) wire. And cut the (N/O) wire and tape it off.

If you have any questions regarding the delay unit into your 240Z with the 91' Honda Civic or 94 Accord wiper motor upgrade with my Park relay, please PM me here or at my email address below.

Dave.

EQUUS 9030 wiper delay full diagram under 1mb.bmp

Universal delay diagram with switch and relay under 1mb.bmp

HELLA wiper delay unit into 240Z with Honda under 1mb.bmp

[ezzzzzzz]

I spent the better part of 4 hours at the local P-N-P yesterday. I looked at every Honda is the joint. These ranged from mid 80's up to 97 and covered Accords, Civics and Preludes (even a few Accuras too). Every Civic (91 and surrounding years) had some funky cast motor housing with four legs offset at odd angles. Only the Accords/Preludes/Accuras had the 3 bolt flat pattern desired. Of course, only the Civics had the smaller double flat shaft. I guess modifying the larger shaft is my only alternative. That's the wiper motor I pulled. Maybe there is a particular build date that the proper motor comes in? I'm not complaining but merely pointing out my personal experience. I'm only doing this for fun anyhow. My Z never sees rain but only the occasional bath.

[Zs-ondabrain]

I had to HUNT as well. Kept finding those "Spider legged" motors. Takes some time to find the right ones. I think I'll make an extra trip to the Pull a Part just to do research on the motors and what cars they are available in.

*UPDATE* on the Delay unit instal. Good News!! It turns out that when you instal the honda wiper motor and MY relay set-up to allow the Motor to "Park", the delay unit only needs to put out a 1 second ground to the blue/white wire.

Delay units already put out a timed 1 second pulse, The instructions call for you to "CUT the Low speed wire, put the COM wire towards the motor and the N/C wire to the switch side of the cut wire" BUT...... it turns out that the way I designed the relay set-up will allow a simple 1 second grounding of the Park wire to give an intermittent wipe. Vholaa, intermittent wipers.

Most or Every delay unit that I've come across is huge or at the very least, a severely ugly hunk of plastic to try and find a place for in the Z, that allows access for the driver to operate the delay unit. And now the GOOD NEWS!....

Good news is that the delay unit can be turned on and set for a specific timing (2 to 20 wipes per minute) then tucked under the dash, out of site. THEN run the power wire of the delay unit thru a small 12 volt switch and back to the ACC. wire on the ignition, and install the small switch within reach of the driver.

When you flip the switch on, there may be a slight delay of up to 5 seconds but it'll do 1 wipe and set back to park, then wipe according to your setting of the delay switch.. Pretty damn cool. HUH? Just remember to shut the switch off before normal operation of the wipers (Low or Hi)

Dave.